duplicate
I do agree that MY was ultimately a good OC at Oklahoma State. The issue I see in hindsight is the context and timing of the hire. MY was not ready for the position and IMHO his lack of experience costs us a Big 12 Championship in 2013. He was plain bad his first 2 years. The next 2 hires are the same issueā¦are we as a program good enough from a talent perspective to handle down years while allowing coaches to grow into a title for the sake of potential ācontinuityā?
The problem with the MY hire in the grander scheme is that the Big 12 was ripe for the taking at that timeā¦I think the program missed an opportunity to close historical gaps while OU was ādownā and Texas has struggled. If and when Texas figures it out and OU keeps rolling, I think we will see those years of regression instead of progress as a lost opportunity. We will never know what that momentum could have turned intoā¦but it is the context as to why it was done that frustrates me.
1 Like
First of all, every 4 star and 5 star player is not āundesirableā thatās why a coach has to do some homework. Eddie Sutton was noted for taking what you call āundesirablesā and making them stars. "Tony Allen "
Second, the only one Iāve heard question Mikeās moral character is Chuba Hubbard.
Last, every team has injuries, but Gundy hasnāt had a good offensive line in 7 years. That goes to hiring, recruiting, preparing and changing to fit your talent. Heck OU has beaten us with a tight end playing quarterback. āBelldozerā
The best I can do is MY could have been a great hire. If Mike Gundy was personally committed to developing MY then I think the results would have been improved. MY comment this year was āGundy moves big rocksā which was another way of saying was I was on my own to figure it out. The other part of the equation is MR. He was the key ingredient to those 10 wins seasons IMO. He kept the chains moving with his knowledge of the system. While he didnāt progress (footwork, pocket awareness, throwing mechanics) as much as I would have like to seen under MY he certainly put the time in the film room. It is that work, which I donāt see Spencer Sanders doing, that helped MR get out of predictable calls from the sidelines.
I view the MY hire similar to Cadeās brothers hiring. If HC goes that route they must take on the responsibility of smoothing that transition to a P5 conference program. Gundy should be in the office burning the midnight oil right besides Kasey Dunn until he can go to sleep knowing Dunn can make it happen.
As good as the defense was this year and having a first year OC, we needed The Gundy fromā¦ I think 2008 vs. Mizzou where he wasnāt even watching the defense play and he was drawing up plays on the sidelines. I know that offense had different weapons than we had last weekend but still. Where did that gunslinger go?
Let me push back on this just a littleā¦ Letās keep the CEO that makes $5MM/yr but just find a way to not let him talk to the CFO and COO who both make 750M? That is short sighted at best and absolutely insane at worst. Would you want to work in that culture???
OSU wont be able to find better? What is this based on? The coaching history at Ok St is irrelevant.
We NEVER seriously entered the football world until Boone and Holder changed the culture and resources for football. HCMG has tools at his disposal that no other OSU coach has ever had. Is our position in the arms race as high as it was 12 years ago, No it is not but it is competitive with everyone in the country. No other football coach in the history of our school was able to say that.
1 Like
Itās not a āwin-at-all-costsā mentality like you think it is. That is a misconception against the people who do want him gone. If you havenāt read any of my posts then maybe you should start. I have no problem with Gundyās demeanor or who he supports religiously or politically. What I do have a problem with over the last three or four seasons is his coaching (or lack of I should say).
You can blame it on injuries or whatever you want. The fact of the matter is since the start of the 2018 season he has a conference record of 13-13. I really wonāt be surprised either if he becomes 13-14 after this weekend. If you are comfortable finishing anywhere from 5th to 9th in the conference every season with the annual head crushing from the in-state rival then good for you. Most of us would like to see it better than that.
The fact that Iowa State is going to play in the Big 12 Championship game when theyāve been historically worst than OSU seems a little bit embarrassing considering we have a āTop 25ā coach. Donāt you think?
When you you have a veteran and senior team with a lot of experience on the D-1 level already then people will have different expectations than a team that doesnāt.
I donāt think any realistic person expects to get 30 or 40 four star recruits. I think what they expect is you start beating programs like Missouri and Arkansas for recruits, and you stop trying to beat out the UTSA and North Texas football programs of the world for recruits.
Iām not talking about TC. Iām talking about Gundyās thoughts in general among fans and even his own players. He even said he didnāt care what his players thought either. If he doesnāt care then why would he care about building confidence back in the fan base or let alone his own team?
See mack brown lost his players . U guys arenāt players
To the first point, Iām not literally saying he should 100% alienate himself from his assistants. Iām saying he needs to let go of his stronghold on them. Just watch the documentary, he throws in these little tidbit comments just before plays that visibly frustrate Dunn often. āI hope youāre not going to pass here.ā āYou better not be throwing it over the middle.ā Things like that. Itās like in basketball when a coach says āyou better not miss that shotā as your starting to pull up. It hurts more than it helps. Thatās what Iām referring to when Iām saying he needs to let them do their thing.
To the 2nd point, I said IN SOME ASPECTS heās the best they can get. I donāt think people realize that tier one coaches arenāt lining up in the masses to come to Stillwater, Oklahoma. They might find a diamond in the rough like Ou did when they pulled Lincoln from ECU, but that sort of thing doesnāt happen often. There are tons of aspects of the program that a bunch of coaches could probably do better than Gundy. I said heās the best in certain aspects. Thatās me playing devilās advocate.
Third, OSUās most dominant team (2011) practiced on a grass mound outside of GIA. They didnāt have the new fancy facilities at their disposal when they came to OSU. You donāt always need Ferrariās to win a race. To combat that, Texas has just about infinite amounts of money and resources and they canāt field a coach as good as Gundy and they canāt win as consistently as Gundy. They even tried to take Gundy from us. And thatās not a brag on Gundy, thatās a point that Money and facilities doesnāt exude success. It takes a million different variables, of which only 3-4 teams in the country manage to nail annually.
Lastly, itās extremely evident and obvious in my post that I was playing both sides. A is why we need to move on. B is why we need to hit the breaks. None of this is ever nor will ever be black and white. Iām not saying OSU should keep him. Iām not saying OSU should fire him. Just showing that there are pros and cons to both sides, and no one will understand that until heās no longer here. It may work out (which supports the fire side of the argument) and it may fail (which supports the opposite). I have no clue which is better, I just now that percentages across the country show that it usually hurts more than it helps in most cases.
Joe do u have heart attacks at nite. U make it seem so easy do u know of a real coach (not ur dream coach). And how much we got to pay players.
Schools like Arkansas and Missouri are beating us out for recruits and are significantly inferior to our performance on the field. Which proves further that recruiting stars donāt mean as much as people think. Iād take OSUās roster of any year of your choosing in any season of the last 6-7 years and theyād beat those teams youāre mentioning such as Arkansas and Missouri because of player development and proper scouting. I did say explicitly that he should be pulling in more 4 and 5 stars than he is. He doesnāt seem to try for the home run recruits because heās already assuming he has no shot at them. Other than that I donāt think itās as big of a deal as people think it is. I still think recruiting isnāt the issue. If it were, Texas would be going 10-2 or 11-1 every year with their endless piles of 4 and 5 star players. Itās the game planning and management thatās constantly shot him in the foot.
I donāt think you can compare performance on the field while theyāre playing Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and Texas A&M while we are playing Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia and Texas Tech.
If only we could have played one of those two teams on a neutral field to see which one was betterā¦
We played Texas A&M last year.
Heās complaining about schools that shouldnāt be recruiting higher than us but are, which is why Arkansas and Missouri were mentioned about 4 times throughout conversation. We beat Missouri on a neutral field. A&M had nothing to do with that conversation. Itās not a surprise that A&M recruits higher than us.
Youāre right about Texas A&M and we beat Missouri in 2018 and they beat us in 2013.
Thatās true. But that was back before Gundy āstopped caringā. I guess not caring was the secret formula.
When he lost in 2013 is when I gave up on Gundy, then he won in 2014 and the next day had to kick Tyreek Hill off the team. The last 3 years the team doesnāt look like it belongs in the top half of the conference let alone in the top 25.