Ah yes, KetchupSicle’s patented, “you don’t know anything about the world of college football which I do because I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy…” Were it me, I would care, yes, for the reasons I stated because they are things I would consider if I were being hired for an actual job. If it were widely known that the guy trying to hire me was having open conflict with his superiors, I would never take that job unless I were desperate or the money was spectacular. I could see joining a struggling organization if there were new leadership that could sell me on a vision. Does that apply to “kids”? I don’t know. I would advise my child not to go into that situation, though. The uncertainty of a judge’s sentence and the uncertainty of entrepreneurship are two entirely different things. You might avoid both because both carry risk, but if you’re going to bet on one, it’s the latter. I feel like the fact that you can’t see this is because you’ve dug your heels in and chose to die on some silly hill.
Ah yes, HeyChamps patented analogy that involves a real world scenario that is not applicable in any way to the current situation. Thats yet again, a falsehood by you. I went through it as a player. I went through it as a Dad. Ive gone through it as a “facilitator”. There are areas in which I have some experience and therefore feel confident in speaking about. Recruiting…is one of them. Of the 20 + families/players that ive personally dealt with, not a single one cared about or knew anything about tension between the Coach and Adm. The HC isnt even involved with a large portion of the actual visits for most players, outside of a group setting. Especially Gundy. The example of how he went about his business in the recruitment of CJ Nickson is a prime example. You get negative recruiting done by other coaches, but even then it’s not about tension within the Admin office. Playing time. Proximity. Ability get to the NFL. NIL. Relationship with position coach. Scheme fit. Schedule. Ability to win. Those are all far more important than any of the junk you mentioned.
Talk about the ultimate use of hindsight, now if we could have all seen that coming in the future yea maybe make some adjustments. Problem is no one can see the future so the discussion is moot. Besides no one is going to fire a coach after a 10-3 season, well except PSU maybe lol.
Yeah. Because it would be real stupid to put your dirty laundry out there like that and have everyone reporting on these testy fights in sports media. I can’t imagine it comes up a lot. I’m sure there are speculative rumors of such things anytime a coach is on the hot seat, but not blow-by-blow accounts of the slap fights in the media. Just like I’ve never had that come up when trying to get a job because what kind of crappy operation would you be running to have everyone knowing your business like that?
Also, explain why the analogy doesn’t hold up instead of just pompously hand-waving it away. You’re entrusting your future to someone based on your impressions and what you know about the organization. Your main concerns are USUALLY not going to be related to such institutional infighting. Playing time. Proximity. Ability to get to the NFL. NIL. These are very analogous to job considerations: getting to do the job you like, commute time, ability to advance, salary. You shouldn’t know that either organization is having dysfunction, but IF YOU DID, that would play into it because that factors into your other priorities. I don’t want to be looking for another job or school in a year because I want everything to be going well in a year and you don’t know if that’s going to be the case if there is public dysfunction and animosity. I think it’s a pretty stellar analogy because both concern your future and your livelihood that you don’t want to put in the hands of instability, ESPECIALLY negative instability.
Youre all over the place. You have gone on and on about how the tension put Gundy at a disadvantage recruiting…then you say “can’t imagine it comes up a lot” and continue to go on for a paragraph.
“Your main concerns are USUALLY not going to be related to such institutional infighting” Your whole argument is based around the premise that recruits concerns ARE based around institutional infighting. What are you talking about?? “but IF YOU DID”…THEY DONT. Ive tried to tell you that. Youve argued it. Now admitted it. Then argued it again.
I ask you again…do you think that tension perceived tension between the HC and Admin is more impactful upon recruiting than going 0-18 in Conf over 2 years?
You missed the point. It probably hasn’t come up for you because I can’t think of another messy divorce like this. Yeah, coaches are on the hot seat ALL THE TIME, but it’s usually not played out in the public with all of the gritty details, drawn out dramatically like this where there’s infighting within the board and the AD and the president and everyone knows what’s being said and who is on what side, etc. What I’m saying is, I seriously doubt that you have ever been a part of any kind of recruiting effort like that, so you don’t actually know what you’re talking about because it doesn’t USUALLY happen. This isn’t me being inconsistent; it’s your reading comprehension.
Absolutely. Full stop. For all of the reasons I said. I’ll paraphrase again. Yes, I would be more willing to go into an honest and energetic rebuild than I would going into a dysfunctional environment where the guys bringing me in starts out under siege and people are waiting to axe him if things don’t immediately improve. Guys worked their butts off all offseason trying to learn a new system, getting in shape all so they can suspend their season halfway through and look for a new place to go or sit there in futility waiting to see what’s going to happen and if they’ll even be wanted next season. That is way worse than going to a team at the bottom trying to work their way back up because I know that’s the job. I’m getting in on a ground floor of a new venture and it might take some time, and it’s risky, but the reward is that I get to be a piece of building that. I was told that was the job, probably explicitly, but certainly implicitly. I won’t find myself looking for a new job halfway through the season. I don’t even know how you can argue the other side.
“Absolutely. Full stop.” You cannot be more wrong & with all due respect, shows you have no idea what you are talking about. You’re out of your element here, Champ. I think we’re done here.
I like how you didn’t provide your reasoning because you don’t have a defensible position and you usually just act like you’re the unquestionable dad as your only argument. Sorry, you’re wrong. Going into a season with a 0-9 conference record, a publicly embattled coach who has little support of the administration, and what… 2 returning starters is objectively worse than our situation will be next season.
Kind of like they did with TCU on their way to the National Championship game the very next year after getting rid of Patterson? At least they can say they aren’t going 0-9 in the conference or losing to Tulsa.
From 2012-2017, he played in 3 other defacto Big 12 championship games. Lost them all. Once as a double-digit favorite at home. When he couldn’t get it done in 2017 with Mason Rudolph and crew, that should’ve been a sign it was never going to happen.
A lot of folks say he’s College Football Hall of Fame material. I’d call that legendary for Oklahoma State given our history prior to Gundy.
Your point is correct that football coaches are basically running universities. Doesn’t mean that’s right. Or even healthy for a university.
Go look at his record against Texas. Granted, Texas was a mess some of those years. But asking him to go 7-12 vs OU wasn’t asking too much.
I’m probably exaggerating on “repeatedly”, but it happened often enough to become an issue.
Leash was entertaining partially because he had a genius level IQ. Kiffin is winning a lot right now. It’s tougher to get away with Gundy’s sound bites when you repeatedly get beat the last 2 years. Not to mention neither Kiffin nor Leach was dumb enough to downplay the seriousness of a player getting a DUI.
Clemson will eventually get rid of Dabo. He’s not winning near like he used to.
I’ll edit that part about assistants. He made some great hires. Those guys were poached which is what you expect. The poor hires, he kept around for too long.
The only thing carrying Dabo right now is multiple conference titles, CFP appearances, and National Titles. Eventually that dries up before the base starts rallying for new blood. In our case, we only have one of those to show for it in 20 years.
There isnt a program/Admin/fan base outside of Alabama that would advocate for firing a guy after winning 10 games. That should never, ever be the bar in Stillwater. If it is, you are going to fire every coach you hire.
“Legendary”…Ive never heard anyone say that. But if you have, I cannot argue it. I agree with you.
His record V TX/OU…Again, if that is you bar, then you will be firing every coach you hire. You are basically saying Gundy needed to have OSU as the best program in the Big 12. Beating OU more consistently was the issue for everyone in the league.
Leach & Kiffin. Again, there are colorful personalities within all sports. Gundy was cute and entertaining when he was winning. When he wasnt, his sound bites didnt quite sound so funny. I think were on the same page with this one.
You either get let go or you walk out on your own terms. Most get let go. Gundy is one of many. Dabo will be too. Hes a very similar case to study like Gundy. His success & longevity have given him a longer leash than most would get
There isnt a program/Admin/fan base outside of Alabama that would advocate for firing a guy after winning 10 games. That should never, ever be the bar in Stillwater. If it is, you are going to fire every coach you hire.
“Legendary”…Ive never heard anyone say that. But if you have, I cannot argue it. I agree with you.
His record V TX/OU…Again, if that is you bar, then you will be firing every coach you hire. You are basically saying Gundy needed to have OSU as the best program in the Big 12. Beating OU more consistently was the issue for everyone in the league.
Leach & Kiffin. Again, there are colorful personalities within all sports. Gundy was cute and entertaining when he was winning. When he wasnt, his sound bites didnt quite sound so funny. I think were on the same page with this one.
You either get let go or you walk out on your own terms. Most get let go. Gundy is one of many. Dabo will be too. Hes a very similar case to study like Gundy. His success & longevity have given him a longer leash than most would get
@bill18 Not true. Richt went 9-3 and they mutually parted ways before the Bowl Game. Solich also went 9-3 and was fired right after the regular season. Solich went 7-7 the year prior, so he was on thin ice going into that season.
So you don’t think Solich and Richt would’ve been competent enough to win their bowl games? I figured if they got the team to 9-3 then they’re quite possible competent enough to win a tenth game.
I havent thought about whether they wouldve won their bowl games, because they werent the coach. Nor was that part of the point or discussion. You said “Nebraska did it to Frank Solich. Georgia told Mark Richt to kick rocks after a 10-3 season” Those arent true statements.
I mean….wether it’s mutually agreed upon or not don’t you think the schools pretty much forced them out though? Despite them having a somewhat less than a desirable season according to their standards? It’s not like they went 6-7. We’re taking about 9-3 here. Your entire point was no other school in the country would do that. While my statement may not be factually true to the T, it’s nonetheless proven the point that coaches dam near to that point have been replaced.
My entire point……was exactly what I said it was. Not what you think I meant or close to what you think I meant. I’m not going back and forth with you, Chief. My point was exactly what I said it was. You then came back arguing, with stuff that wasn’t true. “While my statement may not be factually true to the T” I’m not sure what we’re doing here….?