Preseason Tier List: Sorting Out Big 12 Football Contenders in 2023

Dude……you aren’t listening or reading what I’ve said. I’ll debate with you all day on here……but only on points I actually make.

The same exact thing you just stated about Stoops is exactly how a lot of people are feeling towards Gundy. I’m listening to what you’re saying. The problem is you’re more familiar with the environment and history of OU football, and not as much with OSU. That’s fine I suppose, but I’m trying to point out to you what you’re not seeing in all this. You’re thinking from the mindset that a 75 year old OSU fan instead of a 40 year old OSU fan.

You also stated you could see the program falling apart. I even agreed with you that could be a possibility. However, I’ve also pointed out to you that other less know programs have found stability in hires before. Don’t get me wrong here. I think stability is a great thing to have, but so are trophies. Trophies are what build your program. You of all people should know that being an OU fan. Wins are great but it’s not going to prevent your program from being a stepping stone position if you lack symbols in your facilities.

No sane OSU fan is expecting Gundy to win a national championship. We’ve been going to bowl games for 20 years now (every season but one since 2002). While that’s a good and noble thing to accomplish it’s time to go a step further. Gundy is still under this impression making a bowl game is a huge deal. Really? There’s 80+ teams in college football that make a bowl game. It’s time to start winning conference titles and winning NY6 bowls more often than every ten years or longer. Most fans under the age of 45 realize this. The only ones that don’t seem to get it is the boomer generation and Gundy.

@bill18 What type description best fits how youd label the OSU football job? Is it a stepping stone? If so, how do you think it gets elevated to being a destination?

I’m interested to know how you see other schools K State, Baylor TCU and Texas Tech all stepping stones or are some destinations?

What about a school like Iowa?

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None of the schools you mentioned are destination jobs. KState is the toughest of all those jobs you listed. Poor recruiting base. Dont pay real well. Poor location. Average facilities. Tech is slightly better due to a better recruiting base. Iowa has similar facilities and pays better than the rest of the group. Its also in the better Conf. Getting to go play at Penn St/Ohio St/Michigan/Wisconsin are big deals to kids in that area. The ceiling at Iowa is lower than what it is at Baylor and TCU. Those two could get into some high ceilings if things fall right and they get some money pumped into those places

I think it depends on who’s interested in the program and what their perspective of it is. OSU has always been known as a stepping stone program for most of its history. Considering they pretty much make a bowl game every year now, and pay handsomely for average to above average results I don’t know why any coach would be ready to leave after 3-5 years. What if you can get a coach to stay 8-10 years? Do you still consider that a stepping stone? Some coaches at blue blood programs don’t even stick around for 8-10 years. Brian Kelly left Notre Dame after 10-11 years.

If I come in to run your program and the administration / fans are content paying me 5-6 mil every season to go 8-5 why would I risk getting canned at a BB and becoming a coordinator under someone else? Better yet, if I can use leverage that I can always go somewhere else and you eventually cave every time then why would I risk going anywhere else? Not every coach thinks that way but some do.

It’s a really good question. Because I look at college football in tiers.

Tier 1 (consistent CFP appearances and wins, conference title winners)

OU, Ohio State, Bama, Georgia, Clemson

Tier 2 (consistent NY6 bowl wins/appearances, multiple conference titles within a decade)

Baylor, Oregon, Utah, Washington, LSU, Penn State, Michigan State

Tier 3 ( consistent in winning, no multiple conference titles, an NY6 win every decade / appearance every 3-4 years, conference title appearances, lucky every now and then)

Oklahoma State, TCU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Florida, Texas A&M

What I will say is that I think OSU is sitting in what I consider a high Tier 3 position right now. Basically meaning if they just correct a few things and get serious about the football program I think they’ll be in the Tier 2 group eventually. I think if they solidify themselves in a Tier 2 position within the new conference it would be hard for any coach to jet after just a few short years. So my answer would be yes/no depending on how the new conference shakes out, and if Gundy, Shrum, and Weiberg decide if they want to sink or swim.

@bill18 LSU is in no way on the same tier as Baylor, Utah, Washington, Penn St and Mich St!!! LSU is in a recruiting hotbed. They pay as good as anybody. Facilities are second to none (I just was there 3 weeks ago and saw everything the football and baseball has to offer) Theyre in the premier Conf in football and have won Nat titles with 3 different HC’s in the last 20 years. Those other 6 schools have 3 COMBINED TITLES IN THE LAST 40 YEARS. LSU has done that by itself. Florida and OSU are not on the same tier either. The Gators have been in a NY6 Bowl 3 of the last 6 years and again, have won multiple titles with multiple coaches. Youve lost your mind

I also love how you think its just so easy to accomplish these things. Getting OSU on the same tier as LSU…by “correcting a few things and get serious about the football program”. Respectfully I say again…youve lost your mind. You really need to get out of your bubble and go see what these other places are about. Hey, ill root for OSU to roll through the new Conf. I have zero dislike for the Cowboys (other than Gundy). But man you have no idea what he landscape of college football is and how long it takes to get to that next level. Its not done overnight and it takes a commitment for much longer time than a few years.

Sure LSU won a national title recently, but they’ve also not won multiple conference titles. The last time they won the SEC before 2019 was back in 2011 when Les Miles was still their coach. Washington, Baylor, Utah, and Michigan State have all won at least two conference titles since 2013. LSU is one of those programs I’d consider a top Tier 2. They have one CFP appearance. The same exact number as Michigan State, Washington, and TCU. They don’t have the same amount as Clemson, Ohio State, Bama, Georgia, or OU. The only thing separating LSU from the rest of those programs in Tier 2 IS the recent national title. I’m not speaking in terms of resources or accolades. I’m speaking in terms of conference titles, CFP appearances, and National Titles. If you want to place LSU as the top team in Tier 2 I don’t see any problem with that at all.

OSU has been in three NY6 bowls since 2012. OSU has won two of those (the same amount as Florida in that time frame). Florida also hasn’t won a conference title since 2008. Now with the emergence of Bama, Georgia, and LSU the Gators aren’t as great of a program they’ve used to be. Florida also has four losing seasons since 2012 while OSU has none.

I never said it was an easy thing in the first place. I’ve also never said that currently OSU should be on the same tier as LSU. All I’ve said is that if the conference shakes out like I think it might (Utah, Arizona, Arizona State joining) that OSU SHOULD be able to place itself in a position to win more than one conference title every 20 years. Think with your brain for a moment. What’s been the one program in the Big 12 so far that pretty much kept OSU from obtaining multiple conference titles? You’re getting angry, but aren’t listening to the criteria being used based on what each team has done within its respective conference and nationally recently. Speaking from OSU’s perspective we’ve made a bowl game ever single year since 2002 (except 2005). It’s time for the program to reach higher goals.

I didn’t read anything after you tried to justify putting LSU with Baylor & Utah. It’s an apples to tampons comparison. The fact that you value Conf titles over National titles……:man_facepalming:t4::man_facepalming:t4:If you can’t see the differences that I listed (which are all factual), then you’re pointless to have a discussion with. In no world, from anyone who has an ounce of common sense about college football would put those schools in the same breath with LSU. It’s laughable and quite frankly embarrassing that you don’t know that. Good day sir

Then you’ll never understand my basis for doing so. You might want to read my response.

He went into a tizzy on money, facilities, prestige, and brands when I said the Big 12 is better than the Big 10 performance wise top to bottom. I acknowledged the top of the Big 10 is better but the rest is not and he went on an irrelevant tangent about all these other things.

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“ The on field performance of the Big 12 is better than the Big 10 top to bottom.” You then went on to say they are terrible in bowl season. You were wrong. You said the Big 12 is better on the field, even though the head to head shows otherwise.

You were proven wrong. From every metric. But much like a couple other clowns on here……you are incapable of having a legitimate discussion. Good day fellas. It’s been fun. Fixing to get a tour of Blue Bell Park.

He’s under this impression I’m trying to compare each program to each other based on what you’re saying. That can only be done to a certain extent. My point was what each program accomplished on their own recently within their conference, and also what they’ve done when it comes to conference titles and the CFP. I would never say Baylor is an overall equal program to LSU lol. This is just based purely on a Tier outlook. I would never say in a million years that OU is the equivalent to Alabama recently. Strictly because Bama has more national titles and CFP appearances. That doesn’t mean that OU doesn’t belong in that Tier 1 group. They do because they’ve won the conference multiple times and have made multiple trips to the CFP.

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You posted a lower bowl percentage win rate, they keep a higher percentage of their bad teams out of bowls, and the Big 12 has a higher percentage of bowl eligible teams. Seems like the Big 12 is in fact better top to bottom.

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Also how many of those losses over the last 10 years are ISU losing to Iowa? Hmmm.

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I’d kind of honestly respect a troll job more since he’s an OU fan. Not sure why he’s trying to debate us like this since it doesn’t even involve OU.

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Maybe he’s afraid OU will fall into the Tier 2 or Tier 3 category once they go to the SEC :man_shrugging:. I don’t know, maybe it home with him?

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It’s funny you found another person that stopped reading your posts. Lol
First, i want you to look up philosophy, im positive you dnt know what it means. Gundy has changed in the past and is doing it this year. Seriously ive heard you say mindless thing but that is hilarious.
On coaches, you got 3 types. You get a bad one. You get a good one like miles or briles and were on probation. Third we get another gundy.
Gundy gives us the ole college try. Sure we miss a fg or fall short an inch or have 30 guys get injured, but were always there. Ready for jug and you to say maybe next year.

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It still doesn’t change 1 conference title in 18 seasons. One would think I was taking up for Gundy considering how I talked about OSU in my conversation with Ketchup. Then again, I don’t expect you to understand the depth of the conversation. You can barely read and spell as it is. Oh well, at least you gave it the “ole college try”.

Dude i read it and tomato slice was not having any of your endless crying.

I see you ignored most of what i wrote, just so you could get to crying about titles.

Seriously what is up with the title deal. You wrote endless novel type post. No facts and lame excuse of gundy fails to win titles. When it comes down to you just did to write 1 title. You now nothing about football or osu football.