I understand and appreciate your point … however, in current state of OSU program we are not really loosing to the ‘big dogs’ because they are going after all the 5* & top 4* players across country (total # of players in that category is about 95-115 on given year) …loosing high 4* and top 3* players (about 95-115 given year) to the Baylor - TCU - AR - etc of the world is what hurts …
Draper screwed himself out of playing time by choosing to go South. Macon wasn’t used correctly and now is killing it at his new school. I trust their offer list and my eyes more than stars. Of course if you can get the guys of Ford and Bundages caliber you do, but at the same time you don’t want to miss out on the Pressleys and Harpers of the world. OU has some if the highest rated every year and still don’t perform to their standards. Let’s give Knowles some time and see if he gets things worked out.
Macon’s misuse chaps my hide something fierce. He was a BALLER at his community college, saw zero playing time here, and is a BALLER at USF. That says, to me, that he is in fact a very good player that was poorly used here. It’s one thing to have players bust. It’s another to have them tank here and go gangbusters elsewhere. Those are mistakes we can’t be making.
Maybe it’s just me, but when someone says he was amazing at his community college I don’t think much. Also, I can’t comment on how he’s done at USF because I’m not spending my time watching USF who seems to be back to garbage.
Maybe he was misused here, but I don’t think those two things warrant a reaction of “going gangbusters elsewhere”
Also, the scheme of a college team isn’t going to be changed for players. These players are only here a short period so the system doesn’t cater to them unless they are extremely special. So I’m of the opinion that these “mistakes” aren’t always anyone’s fault. Maybe they just don’t fit and they need a different scheme.
This was very long and could be completely wrong and if you read the whole thing you should get a prize. Go pokes
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Like I said in the other post, Macon was extremely mishandled. When you’re the DPOY for the country at any level, you have some talent. So yeah it does have merit. And he’s AVG like 4 TFL per game as USF. So again. That means something. He could be a BEAST in the scheme we are running now. Just never got the opportunity. Some guys are just “gamers”. I feel that way about Spencer, and had he not been a young, highly touted QB then he probably doesn’t get the job this year. Then he comes in a game and you see it. I just think you have to get guys out there to see what they can do. Macon makes his living off big hits and instincts, both of which are hard to show in a controlled practice setting.
Macon was also recruited by the previous DC/LB coach so it could be he just did not fit the scheme that Knowles wanted. I mean our current LBs are doing excellent so not really seeing Macon as that big of a loss and you can call him a recruiting miss but when you change schemes that can happen. For an example look at Troy Aikman, he left OU to go onto much bigger things but it was just cause OU changed back to a wishbone offense.
I assure you he could have fit in the inside backer spot great. He’s super athletic from sideline to sideline. He will be in a camp after this season and I can say with someone confidence that the inside backers we are using won’t be. That’s a big jump in talent. Even with depth alone it would help.
I had high hopes when Macon landed at OSU, I have no idea if he was mishandled, had injuries that limited him or simply couldn’t crack the 2 deep because of talent or potentially effort. What I can say is that whatever you saw wasn’t universally shared vision, he sat on the portal for quite some time and he landed with a bad football team. I haven’t watched a down of USF fb and I probably won’t, a few theories, it might be that he’s showing out because he feels more comfortable as the big fish in a small pond or it could be his stats are inflated because nobody else can tackle anyone it’s also possible your entire premise is correct.
Regardless I don’t think any juco can be considered a miss in recruiting.
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You’re saying if a JUCO guy doesn’t work out it can’t be called a kiss or that if we don’t sign them it’s not a miss? Because the kid that signed with Georgia out of JUCO last year will probably end up as a first rd pick. So if he didn’t work out or they didn’t get him. Yes, that’s a miss. Several others but you get the point. Cam Newton?
No I’m saying it’s not a miss because most of the time, there are exceptions, it’s a filler for a mostly full class. You have one to give and you take a flyer on a kid.
But back to Macon instead of Newton, he was a later in the class commit if I remember correctly.
I don’t know how much of a target he would’ve been if Gundy gets his 1st or 2nd lb choice, maybe they targeted him from the get-go and he was the #1 choice but even if they did that doesn’t change anything about what I posted.
It’s a 2 yr window
I understand what you’re saying, but right now we are offering 3 or 4 JUCO guys before the first signing part.
No one on Gundy’s staff is recognized nationally as a top recruiter …in stark contrast to other D1 programs…indeed, it rare to find that coach who is good in player development and recruiting …most are good in one or the other …Gundy values the developer and staff stability …the guy who only wants to coach … in contrast…Coach Arroyo genuinely enjoyed recruiting and his results speak for themselves …
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Yeah he crushed it with 4 3* recruits in his time here.
Let’s just ignore what Kasey Dunn, Joe Bob Clements, Tim Duffie, and Jason McEndoo have been able to accomplish in their time at OSU while dreaming about the young RBs coach that is failing at his job as OC at Oregon and who couldn’t wait to get out of Stillwater.
Oh… and Sean Gleeson in one summer landed a high 4*, top rated QB… but yeah let’s go ahead and lust after a guy that doesn’t want to be at OSU.
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I’m with you on the ‘pass on Arroyo’ train. Had he STAYED and built a rep, I’d be down. But he’s not even close to beloved in Oregon and bolted from OSU at the first opportunity. I mean, if we pull in Ngata (which isn’t impossible), Wozniak will have been better than Arroyo. Picture that!
That being said, whoever comes next needs to have ‘top recruiter’ on their resume.
You sure ‘read in’ alot more than what I actually said:
- Arroyo was simply an example of difference between a ‘recruiter vs coach’
What he did in Stilly and what is happening in Oregon clearly illustrates my point… - I could care less if Arroyo wanted to be in Stilly or not …he was good recruiter for the 1 yr and made impact …if that is ‘lust’ then bring it on…Gundy could use some more of that on his staff
I too hope Woziniak turns into a good recruiter. I think he has good potential…but, to be honest the school is still out …
He took a flyer on Hubbard that has panned out really well and then there was JD King who didn’t amount to much and got home sick.
Your revisionist history on Arroyo’s accomplishments is a symptom of the overall issue with our fan base. Grass is always greener.
Meanwhile Kasey Dunn has consistently brought in 4* and 3* receivers that then go on to be really good. But he’s not a good enough recruiter? Then there’s McEndoo that has recruited some stars… That haven’t really done much in a really weird position that we don’t use… But that’s not good enough either?
It’s lusting after a guy that got us one quality player and split as soon as he could. There’s no other adequate description for the Arroyo love fest. It’s pathetic.
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Woz better land a highly touted back this cycle or he’ll be shown the door.
You are hung up on Arroyo … pointing to isolated examples (coach) does not make a complete story (staff)
- Arroyo = 1 example period
- Dunn the Coach/Recruiter = thumbs up (biletnikoff)
- Gundy/Staff = thumbs down (30+ recruiting ranking consistently)
The #'s dont lie …
You missed the mark IMO. The point is MA had success in recruiting to oSu and he did it by doing the opposite of what head coach Mike Gundy publicly expressed. Gundy says why it can’t happen, can’t keep coaches that make it happen, and replace the coaches that leave with coaches who aren’t known as recruiters.
Henson was known as a recruiter when he arrived and did a great job. FYI Gleeson and MY did the same thing MA did to land a 4* QBs. Both left the region and offered QBs that had (0) local p5 offers. Clemson, N. Carolina, and S. Carolina didn’t offer MR. USC, UCLA, and Stanford didn’t offer Costello or SI. That is national recruiting and Gundy has come out against that approach. Development is the justification but I am not impressed with what the staff did in 4 years to develop TC and 2 years with Daxx Garman. Much of the coaching staffs that built oSu’s reputation for developing players are no longer in Stillwater. Bill Young, Joe Wickline, Jason Jones, Gunter Brewer, Holgy, Monken, Meacham, and Joe Defo to name a few.
FYI Oregon has improved, in recruiting and on the field, since MA arrived in 2017. Those are facts.
Current Oregon Class 2019 = #7 Nationally with average of .90 player ranking: (1) 5 star & (12) 4 star
Before MA arrival 2016 =.87 (7) 4 star
247 Ranking
2019: #7
2018: #13
2017: #19
2016: #27
Arroyo came to Eugene after spending two years as the running backs coach at Oklahoma State, and brings experience as a coach for every offensive position except the offensive line. His second year with the Cowboys brought a substantial uptick in the running game from 2015, as OSU went from averaging 3.6 yards per carry and 126.8 yards per game to averaging 4.52 yards per carry and 170.9 yards per game in 2016. The Cowboys’ 32 touchdowns in 2016 were also an improvement from their 25 in 2015.
Arroyo was also instrumental in grooming running back Justice Hill, who set OSU’s freshman rushing record in 2016 and was the nation’s top freshman rusher with 1,142 yards on 206 carries (5.54 ypc). Hill earned first-team All-American honors and was the Associated Press Big 12 Freshman of the Year, and he dominated in conference play with 105.9 yards per game. Overall, Arroyo helped the Cowboys’ offense become one of just two teams in the nation to have a 4,000-yard passer, a 1,000-yard receiver and a 1,000-yard rusher.