Dude… When has Gundy ever said that we can only succeed on local recruits that are under the radar? Because what they’re recruiting doesn’t jive with that. Go look at the offer sheet. Yes, of course there are a lot from Texas… But there are also several offers for kids in California, Washington, New Jersey, Ohio, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana…
The evidence does not match the narrative that our coaches don’t care about recruiting, that they only recruit locally, and that Arroyo was an ace recruiter while he was here.
He’s said a version of that several times. You just have your head in the sand.
And I trust Boone and his sources when Boone says, gundy doesn’t work as hard at recruiting as other head coaches. He doesn’t put in the same level of man hours. And if you look at his track record of success on the trail it shows.
There’s nuance here that I think you’re ignoring.
On a scale of 1-100. 100 being the hardest worker in recruiting, 0 being wont even send a text, his effort is probably around 45. Other big 12 coaches are in the 80s.
Does anyone really think mike gundy would jump on a jet to go recruiting, call into sports center to let everyone know he’s on a jet to go recruit, the day after he wins a big 12 championship. (Lincoln did) Hell no he wouldn’t. He’d be in a duck blind.
So him landing 4 star RB recruit Glass last year means nothing? I mean he was higher rated than any of the guys Arroyo got. And he is also the guy that has gotten Chuba to where he is coaching wise. Not sure why he would have much heat on him unless you have info not known to others.
He may have been a 4star but there is a reason he was uncommitted till the spring signing. Based on his (lack of) performance this year, there’s something to that.
“We hear a lot about that. We go after and offer and put the pedal on all four stars and five stars, geographically and maybe even out of our region. Sometimes we don’t get as far as other schools. We really push hard to evaluate players that are within a 6-8 hour drive of Stillwater that fit our culture. We try to recruit specifically to our culture and to a position, instead of maybe just taking a best available player on the board, we want to make sure we have a slot for them, and there’s not any question we have the best strength coach in the country.
“We all know this, as coaches, we get our players about six months out of the year, our strength coach gets them about 11 months out of the year … by the time they come to us they get it, they understand our culture, and they can show it on the field and in the classroom.”
Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy caught some heat for his comments following the Early Signing Day, when he said, “We go after every eight-star, six-star, four-star and every star in the world we can get around here and they all go to other schools at this point so we go get whatever else is out there.”
The comment appeared to be directed specifically towards the quarterback position, but as Kyle Porter wisely pointed out on Pistols Firing Blog, there are reasons to believe Gundy and his staff may not be going after as many recruits as maybe they should be going after.
Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy caught some heat for his comments following the Early Signing Day, when he said, “We go after every eight-star, six-star, four-star and every star in the world we can get around here and they all go to other schools at this point so we go get whatever else is out there.”
The comment appeared to be directed specifically towards the quarterback position, but as Kyle Porter wisely pointed out on Pistols Firing Blog, there are reasons to believe Gundy and his staff may not be going after as many recruits as maybe they should be going after.
In fact, it’s my belief that there’s no reason at this point, based on the success Gundy is having, that his recruiting class shouldn’t be in the Top 25 on a yearly basis. Gary Patterson has been able to do it at TCU with arguably less Big 12 success than Gundy. Oklahoma State should be. Right now their 2019 class is ranked 46th, behind a school like Iowa State, which makes no sense considering Gundy’s program won 10 games for three straight seasons (2015-2017), is less than 10 years removed from having a legitimate chance at a National Championship, has an offense known for its ingenuity and explosiveness and is just a few hours from fertile Texas recruiting grounds. It should be alarming to Oklahoma State fans that they’re getting out recruited by Matt Campbell and company. This is not a knock on the Cyclones. What Matt Campbell is building is incredibly impressive, but the longevity and success in Stillwater is far greater to date.
However, when it comes to Gundy’s bigger point regarding quarterbacks, he added, “Try to find the very best one that fits our system… We kind of work our way from here out, and we usually end up on the east or west coast somewhere. There’s a number of guys in this area that we tried to get in on and they didn’t have any interest in us so we just go to the next guy.”
It feels like a defeatist attitude in many ways, but I’ll give Gundy this: with the amount of players that are transferring, especially big name quarterbacks, most recently Georgia’s Justin Fields (potentially), one of the top prospects in America in the Class of 2018, Gundy has a point. Also, the new redshirt rule has change the game, where players can play in up to four games, and still redshirt, also creating a larger transfer market.
Justin Fields is considering a transfer, even though he knew he was committing to a program that just reached the National Championship with a true freshman quarterback in Jake Fromm. I get the competitive nature of every player believing he can compete, and maybe beat out, anyone and everyone on the field, but Fields is a prime example of someone who should have possibly considered a non-blue blood program.
If playing ASAP, which so many high school players are now prepared to do, is of high importance, five-star prospects should start considering schools a step or two below the Alabama’s, Ohio State’s and Oklahoma’s of the world.
Here’s a perfect example: Iowa State QB Brock Purdy.
Purdy also had offers on the table from Alabama and Texas A&M. Had he gone to those programs, do you think he would’ve come close to seeing the field this season? Certainly there was no chance of that happening in Tuscaloosa. He went to Ames, joined an up-and-coming program, and stepped in as the starter in the middle of the season and now becomes the face and the leader of the program for the next two to three years starting in 2019.
And guess what? Brock Purdy gets reps and his chances of playing in the NFL aren’t diminished playing at Iowa State. If anything, they increase because of the quality experience he is getting. It’s 2018, not 1958. Every single college football game is on television. Sure Alabama gets more national prime time action, but that is irrelevant when it comes to getting drafted today. Every fan or scout can see a Power 5 player play on every Saturday from his couch. It’s easier than ever before.
So why do the top recruits fall head over heels for the blue bloods when there are often times several road blocks to playing? In the case of Justin Fields, had Jake Fromm been a junior last year, the move makes more sense. One more season and then you can compete for the opening. 2018 would be a chance to get a season under your belt to learn the system and get adjusted to college. But the idea that Justin Fields is now surprised that he probably won’t be a starter at Georgia until 2020, at the earliest , should not be overly surprising.
So I’ll tell you what, Gundy definitely has a point. But it’s also Gundy’s job to sell the story I’m telling in this article to recruits. The lifestyle of a top recruit at Oklahoma State is nominally different, if at all, compared to a top prospect at Oklahoma. The facilities at the majority of Power 5 programs are outstanding, everyone will play on national television several times per year and the scouts can find you easier than ever before.
When the quality of options are greater than ever before for high school athletes, the non-traditional programs need to begin making that pitch more effectively. If not, the College Football Playoff carousel will continue between the same handful of programs, the recruiting rankings will barely budge, and despite the amount of money in college football, the sport won’t see the parity it deserves.
I think basketball and football are apples and oranges… and I think the personalities of the two coaches are completely different. There isn’t much value in Gundy watching 14 year olds play football… But yes, they should publicize when he is getting on planes more. Gundy doesn’t run his twitter account though, so I’m sure it’s tough to capture everything he’s doing.
The evidence absolutely exist (& aligns) that Gundy/Staff UNDEPERFORM in recruiting year after year. The #'s do not lie. Whether or not recruiting performance aligns with on field performance is a completely different discussion. However, 1 B12 Championship in 15 yrs absolutely proves OSU will never compete regularly for conference championships until recruiting ‘as whole’ improves. Anyone doubting that is in denial. #'s are not always 100% correct. But, #'s examined on balance/over time does 100% time paint a 100% accurate performance.
Gary, I’m not arguing that OSU doesn’t underperform in recruiting. I understand that and agree with your post.
My argument is that there isn’t a will or effort to recruit outside of OSU’s immediate geographic region, or that OSU isn’t going after top talent. The evidence does not support that, as there are offers and visits for top rated recruits across the country.
My argument is that there is a lack of interest from top talent, year in and year out, in coming to OSU for whatever reason… If it’s Gundy’s attitude towards social media, then that needs to change (although Saban and Meyer and others share his disdain for the internet, so that’s kinda weird)… If it’s that Gundy isn’t getting on a plane and doing in homes with all of these guys as soon as dead period is over, then he needs to go do it… If it’s that our brand perception is poor, then we need to do what can be done to get that changed.
I think you guys have the same thoughts, just from slightly different perspectives. Here’s the long and short of it, I think: it doesn’t matter if there’s the will or effort to recruit XYZ or not. We honestly can’t know that (although sourced info can say a lot).
What we CAN know is that it is Gundy’s JOB as ‘CEO’ and head coach to sell and convince players to come to OSU. It is his responsibility to make OSU as attractive as possible to get some of those bigtime recruits in. It is his responsibility to really make those players have to think hard about why they should NOT come to Stillwater.
I also don’t believe it is unfair to say that he has not/is not doing that.
With his rants against social media, he is showing that he is not interested in utilizing a key component of the lives of recruits to sell OSU to them. That, flat out, is negligent. I’m not speaking to his desire to win or anything like that, but if he’s outright derisive of something that (like it or not) matters a ton to recruits, that is definitively a problem.
Thanks for additional clarity. I believe they have expanded the recruiting radius for last couple of years. Im satisfied with effort there. Yes, I know they go after the top recruits as well (although i wish they would not spend any time with 5* because #'s dont support putting forth the effort). As far as ‘overall’ effort? I can only go by ‘results’ which typically means ‘re-evaluate’ your ‘overall’ recruiting processes etc. I’m sure to some extent, they are doing that. But, then again, how long does it take to ‘make adjustments’ ? Clearly, whatever was done in the past did not work and whatever done most recently ($'s & staff) has not yielded results with the 2020 class (which is the 1st real class you can use to measure impact of recent changes). To sum up, I agree with you that indeed, the ‘recruiting effort’ does seem to be on an expanded radius. My issue is with Gundy (as leader), allowing this ‘recruiting problem’ to fester for as long as he has. He is paid to ‘solve problems’. All we need to do is recruit 8-10 (50% of average recruiting class) 4* athletes and other 50% be high 3*'s which is a completely doable achievement. Every year this performance would yield top 15-20 classes. I don’t believe most fans realize what little it would take to change the performance. If I know a ‘goal’ is right there in front of me and doable and is needed to get to the next level … he is paid $5M each year to make it happen. We are not asking Gundy and staff to bring 20 five star athletes to Stilly. It is a fair expectation for him to bring 8-10 four stars each class. If done, each year then suddenly we are competing against OU with a much more level playing field.
I agree with all of this… although I think our program would elevate with 4 or 5 four star recruits per class too.
And yes, I agree that it is completely on Gundy for allowing this issue to become so prevalent and it is certainly showing on the field… I just disagree that he doesn’t care about recruiting or that he doesn’t put forth the effort… I just think that he thinks what has worked for him before will work for him again, and is unwilling to change… which is a broader issue.
I disagree with DrC that his social media rants matter. OSU Football has obviously significantly upgraded their social media team over the past three years, and is almost overextended on getting all of this information out there. And whoever runs Gundy’s twitter tweets little stuff here and there, but I think just taking it over and making it an extension of Gundy’s personality (which people outside of our fanbase love) would be a good play… Gundy himself, like many great coaches in college football, sees no need for it… but that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
As they say in the business world … Gundy is not/would not, be known as a ‘change agent’
That attitude has been the down fall of many CEO’s … that said, i don’t have a recruiting ‘passion meter’ to put on Gundy … but, if forced to do so … I would bet alot of $'s on this … Take Gundy’s 12 mth calendar and put it up against Lincoln Riley’s 12 mth calendar and looked specifically at recruiting days spent in front of recruits/evaluating recruits etc …i would bet its a ‘no contest’
Big 12 in 2005 was regarded as the best conference. That helps and matters with recruiting.
Sec wasn’t pulling kids out of Texas like they are now.
Gundy was a brand new coach with 3 years to prove it. Best way to prove it? Win games. Easiest way to win games? Have better players. There’s no way he’s as hungry as he used to be. If he was he, wouldn’t have admitted he got lazy last year.
Honestly I think, outside of OU and UT, recruiting across the Big 12 is down pretty significantly and I believe there is a major perception problem in our league. There are some teams sneaking into the top 30, like Iowa State, but it’s more a volume thing than a quality thing.
I agree with Eddy. And I also think Gundy truly believes in his idea of recruiting charcoal and turning them into diamonds. I think he believes in Glass. I think he believes he has surrounded himself with excellent talent evaluators. I think he’s tired of having to kick guys off the team because they took a risk on a questionable character guy.
So… yeah… I think there’s a lot of variables… and I think a lot of it is rooted in Gundy’s reluctance to dramatic change. I think the haircut is a good example… It was a great bit when it started. No doubt about that. But it’s for sure worn out it’s time and he should totally get it cut… but he thinks it’s still buying him clout, so he’s keeping it.
