Living in Memphis, with my wife being a Memphis grad, has been hard, seeing them getting all of these highly-sought-after recruits. But I got to rub Cade’s commitment in her face. 
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If you can’t be excited for the 2020-2021 season in fall 2019, when can you?
It’s like how excited you should be about Football in late July with our no doubt Heisman winning QB at the helm. Who cares if it doesn’t happen, being pessimistic about something in the future you have no control over seems like a recipe for being miserable.
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The different ‘perspectives’ expressed all depend upon how a person defines ‘program changer’ … all are valid perspectives…for me, CC doesn’t prove anything that hasn’t already been proven (winning and recruiting) for OSU/BB…what it does say … it’s a GIANT step toward finally getting the BB program back to being a revenue/profit ‘contributor’ to Athletic Dept so the OTHER sports can continue to get better as well …for the last decade most folks dont realize the financial burden the BB program has put on the overall Athletic Dept operating budget etc …
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as far as smart goes coach ford let that get away with just ugly shot after shot when we needed him driving.
I posted this awhile back, but it fits in this thread perfectly.
Steven Adams - Pitt
Emmanuel Mudiay - SMU
Jaylen Brown - Cal
Ben Simmons - LSU
Markelle Fultz - Washington
Collin Sexton - Alabama
Michael Porter - Mizzou
[list edited because it was pointed out to me down-thread that those guys didn’t meaningfully play for the colleges they committed to.]
Those are all top-five national recruits going to not-Kentucky not-KU not-UNC places and really not changing the program much at all, despite playing up to their potential while there. You could throw Trae Young on that list if you want to, as well.
My thoughts on this:
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The list above shows, IMO, that the title of the thread is warranted. Is this exciting? Of course! Could it be the start of something big? Yes! But do I feel like some people are getting a little ahead of themselves about what’s now going to happen? I do.
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How do LSU basketball fans (LOL!) remember Ben Simmons? Fondly? At all? I really don’t know. OSU has never had a really great one-and-done player, so I’m honestly not sure how to process this. Let’s say Cade is awesome, OSU finishes 2nd in the Big XII, and loses in the Elite Eight. Ten years from now, who do we remember more fondly? Cade Cunningham or Cam McGriff? Again, I’m not sure, but I think for me it’s McGriff.
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For those of you who are all in on the Program-Changer narrative, where do you see us in 5 or 10 years? Are we UNC or KU, a true new-money blue blood who churns through one or two lottery picks every year? Having been an OSU sports fan all my life, I literally can’t even wrap my head around that concept. What I can understand, and would love, is for us to become a program like, I don’t know, somewhere on the continuum between Wisconsin/Oregon and Villanova. Bring in good players to a good system, expect to have a decent shot at making some kind of run every year, and have national championship upside when a core of two or three guys comes together.
Yeah, I know, I know. I’ve been Gundified! I’ve been trained to accept just being pretty good as the ultimate goal. I can’t see that Boynton is the Dabo Swinney of college hoops and that our grandkids are going to be shocked when we tell them that, yes, there were years, waaaaaay back when, when we didn’t even make the tournament, much less the final four.
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Have you seen the recruiting classes LSU and Washington have been getting since Simmons and Fultz, respectively?
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No, I haven’t. I don’t follow recruiting. I don’t even follow non-OSU basketball hoops until March. I just know that LSU and Washington are not currently relevant, which was my point.
[quoting myself!]
This was dumb. The example I’m looking for here is Sutton-era OSU!
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Really well said. Cade committing is awesome, but people acting like this severely alters the program in the long term are getting way ahead of themselves. (If he wins a title, that changes things, obviously)
When they start allowing high school players back in the draft, it will be a blessing for schools like OSU.
Give me guys like McGriff, Waters, Markel Brown, Cobbins, Forte, Nash, Anderson, Moses, Victor Williams, Melvin Sanders, Mason, Adkins, Imac, etc all day. Consistently really good 3-4 year players will be what determines the long term success of the program. (The 2004/2005 team was a little different because of all the transfers, but all of those guys were 4 year college players).
Emmanuel Mudiay bypassed college and Michael Porter Jr only played in 3 games.
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Fair enough! Shows what I know. Original post edited!
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Doug, I agree with you that this could happen. But the one thing that remains to be seen is how Cade impacts other recruits like Thor and Bryce. They come… I think it’s different. Thor could stay 2 years and Bryce may too (although I think Bryce is less likely than Thor to come back).
Cade going out and working on Bryce is something I don’t think Simmons and others did. Hell, Smart didn’t recruit like that when he was here and I’m sorry when he announced he was coming back for his sophomore year… he should’ve been blowing up all top recruits.
That to me is the difference but like I said earlier, your arguments make total sense and could happen but it feels a tad different to me.
We can take a breath if in two years we are still middling in the Big 12. For now, with trajectory pointing up, the #2 overall recruit secured and more on the horizon I will take no breaths. All depends on if you believe in Boynton and what he is building. Some of those guys were just swinging for the fences and happened to hit one out, Boynton has been methodically planning this for more than a year.
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I think another point is that Oklahoma State has a much more rich basketball history than Missouri, Washington, Cal, or Alabama.
Like… I don’t think that Cunningham will launch us to a level anywhere near UNC or Duke or Kansas… but if they get us to where Eddie had us, perennial top 3 in the Big 12 and pretty confident that we will at least be in the Sweet 16, then we will all be happy.
And I think that’s realistic after signing a class like the one Boynton is possibly signing this year. Couple in upper classmen in Yor and Issac… plus the young guys we have now… it’s going to be a really, really good team… if Boynton can put the right scheme and lineup on the floor, it’s going to be a great season and, at this point, if it stops at the Elite 8 we should all be really happy with that.
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Well here ya go, then:
This is for 2019, specifically. LSU was ranked lower than ours…but they landed a 5-star. Potential violations aside, LSU is most definitely gaining relevance, especially after making it to the Sweet Sixteen when a lot of people thought they’d lose in the first round because of the turmoil surrounding Will Wade, at the time.
Also, Washington made it to the second round before getting bumped by UNC. Landed two 5-stars for 2019, one being a potential #1 pick depending on how this season pans out.
Let me put it to you like this: I wouldn’t argue with someone if they were to say those two programs are more relevant than ours, even with Cade Cunningham in the picture. There are arguments to be made in favor of that.
Yeah, I’ll be super duper happy with that. And I want to be clear that I LOVE Boynton. Even if he tops out at not-quite-Sutton levels of success, I’ll be happy to keep him around forever.
But I think my point is that CC signals a different kind of path from Sutton’s teams. Even though Cunningham and Thompson are higher-ranked than, say, Thor and Walker, I think I’d feel more comfortable with a class headlined by Thor and Walker than one headlined by Cunningham and Thomspon. Why? Because I’m more convinced that it’ll lead to having a stable of good two- or three-year players that feel like OSU Cowboys.
I fully support players’ rights to be one-and-done. Heck, I support their right to be zero-and-done. So I’m not get-off-my-lawn-ing the one-and-done concept. But I like feeling connected to OSU’s players, and I don’t think that’s going to happen with one-year guys, no matter how good they are.
Or we could get Cunningham and Thompson and Thor and Walker and have it all. It could happen. Maybe we become Duke. Maybe we should let ourselves accept and celebrate that that’s on the table right now.
Thing is: I live in Tennessee, sandwiched between Alabama football fans and Kentucky basketball fans. My observation is that it’s a miserable existence. When they watch a game, the only possible emotions you can feel are crushing disappointment or grim relief. I know I’m getting all philosophical here, and am sounding like a money-won’t-make-you-happy self-help lecture. I guess I’m trying to work out why I’m not personally as giddy as everyone else is.
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This is my corner! I don’t want to be OU! I get lit on fire when I say it, but it’s not as joyful to be OU as it is to be OSU! (Maybe a bad example given Gundy’s record, but point remains).
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I understand the sentiment, and mostly agree. I don’t think this the start of a Cal-Era Kentucky like run of one and dones every year. We can have Cade and possibly other future one and dones while still getting those solid 3 to 4 year players.
I’m in the corner of ‘I want winning to be an expectation’. I don’t mean that we need to be as entitled and whiny as KU/UK fans…but we shouldn’t feel grateful to just make the tourney anymore. Granted, the last few years have been rough so a tourney bid is a win, but these down years should be an anomaly.
To put it another way, I shouldn’t be surprised when we do good things (I mean this for OSU as a whole). I shouldn’t need to hold on to every little victory like a man dying of thirst in a desert when he finds a small pool of water. Big wins like getting Cade or Shane Illingworth should be celebrated, yes. Beating OU in any context should be time to cheer. But being bowl-eligible, for instance, should be expected now, not a reason to throw a party. We need to get past the point of not expecting anything good to happen. We need to be in a mindset that pushes us forward as a fanbase, not into a place where we’re grateful to just not get kicked in the teeth.
Does that make sense?
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Cal’s only UK championship had one of those good “3-4 years” guys (Patrick Patterson). It’s important to have those “wise ones”.