Originally published at: https://pistolsfiringblog.com/osu-baseball-cowboys-season-ends-with-4-2-loss-to-florida-in-regional-final/
OSU finished the year 42-19.
Once is a fluke
Twice is a coincidence
Three times is a trend.
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A lot of fans are ready to talk about Josh’s replacement. Fans are frustrated with the lack of national success. This once proud program has only made three Supers in twelve years. This program has much higher potential. Time for Josh to move on.
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We haven’t been able to play small ball for years
Josh has none of Ward in him No intensity
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“It’s been a long
A long time coming, but I know
A change gon’ come”_Sam Cooke
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Time for AD Weiberg to sit down with Josh and explain that he needs to do what it takes to build a program that can make it to the college world series. Make him shake his staff up to upgrade recruiting and coaching. Josh can just sit in the dugout and eat sunflowers seeds but this needs to happen.
OSU needs to make the most of their assets and we are not doing this with our baseball brand and new stadium.
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I’ve been saying to friends for a while, Walton needs to go. If I’m Josh I’m bringing in Uncle Dave to be hitting coach. Go look up what he did for Pete Incaviglia, Ventura and really the whole lineup when we were going to the CWS every year. Now granted, this year’s team had some good hitters, but where we were weak was manufacturing runs. You live and die w/ the long ball, but sometimes you have to play small ball. That’s how Florida beat us the first game.
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Im gonna say this as respectfully as I can…you people are nuts. Hes finished 1/2 in the Conf 8 of his 11 years. Has made a Regional every year. Has won the Regular Season or Conf Tourny 5 of 11 years. Hes hosting Regionals. Hes running a clean program. You want to fire him becuase hes not getting to Omaha?? Listen, its been some postseason disappointments. I get it. But firing Josh Holliday is ludicrous. If im Holliday and the Powers-That-Be bring me to give me a “do better” talk, I go nuts about giving me some NIL $$ to play with.
Holliday makes nearly $8000,000 a year and is in the top 15 of highest paid college baseball coaches. OSU has, arguably, the nicest facilities in the country. OSU has a long tradition of excelling in baseball. While I do think it is premature to fire him, he definitely deserves a come-to Jesus talk, though. He can complain about NIL all he wants. I assume that will be every coach’s excuse from now on out. But, the way his teams collapse in the post-season, including the losses to Florida this year, has nothing to do with NIL or talent level. Under Holliday, OSU has frequently lost when they’ve been the better team–that’s a coaching problem, not a talent one.
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I like how YOU are the judge on who is the better team at a certain regional​:joy:
. Your pay is based on your worth. If you think he should be fired……then you’re one of the idiots. If you think he’s doing a good job……then I agree with you. If you think he’s doing a good job but needs to quit losing home regionals……I’m also with you. If you think the lack of NIL $$ is an “excuse”, then you’re as lost as Dabo Swinney.
Last year, ORU won the Stillwater Regionsl and then went on to make it to Omaha. They were better than OSU. In 2022, Arkansas went on to make it to Omaha. They too were better than the Cowboys
New stadium the old crutch…
NIL the new crutch.
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Generally speaking, if you are the higher seed, then you are supposed to be the better team. That’s not rocket science and that’s not my judgment–that’s the NCAA’s judgment on who should be the better team.
If a coach’s pay is based upon his worth, then Holliday’s team should be making super regionals every year. He is in the top 15 of highest paid coaches. The minimum performance, by your logic, should be a super regional every year. That’s not happening.
I clearly said I think it is premature to talk about firing him. I do not think he is doing a “good” job. I think he is doing a passable job, maybe a little bit above average for P4 conferences and other prominent G5 programs, but below the expectations for a program like OSU.
NIL money is important, but just like with the men’s basketball program, NIL doesn’t make in-game performance fall apart. That is where the excuses come in. All a good NIL program can do is help recruit players. It has nothing to do with how those players perform in games or how coaches choose lineups, call plays, etc. You point out that last year ORU won the regional and went to Omaha. Do you seriously contend that ORU has more NIL money available to players than OSU?
I don’t particularly like the state of college athletics today, but things are different. The extracurricular, educational mission of college athletics is largely gone. It’s now mostly professional. Time to treat them like it.
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Stating seeding as your reasoning for who is a better team is ignorant. Postseason seeding for the NCAA tournament is not done by whom the NCAA thinks is “better”. It’s done by what the NCAA deems as deserving based on how their season has gone. You are seeded based on what you have done to that point. Not on who they think is going to win. That’s common sense.
Holliday, or any coaches “worth” isn’t SOLELY tied to how they finish at the end of each year. Again, that’s an absurdly short-sighted viewpoint. The OSU baseball program is in as good of shape as it’s ever been. Is it winning at a clip like it had in its heyday? Of course not. But the landscape has changed.
“Below the expectations of a program like OSU”. What are your expectations of this program? You seem like a smart guy who has a solid grasp on things, even if I disagree. What do you feel like the expectations are that Holliday is not meeting? Again, I have admitted that his finishes in home regionals has been disappointing in given years.
Please don’t put words in my posts. I never said ORU had a NIL leg up on anyone. I didn’t tie NIL to how OSU has finished in any year. OSU under Holliday has been a really good program, the most consistent in the Big 12. If anyone at OSU
wants this program to consistently be going to Omaha & making a Super Regional annually as an expectation……then you better start tossing around some NIL dollars. Nowhere, no how did I or anyone else say that to excuse any loss. OSU won’t win solely because of NIL expansion and they won’t lose solely because of it either. But if you think NIL doesn’t affect your ability to bring in MORE QUALITY PLAYERS……then you’re clueless.
Odd you say it’s time to treat them like professionals……but don’t want to get them the NIL part. That makes no sense. I don’t like how college athletics currently is ran either……but that doesn’t mean you refuse to play the game.
Ketchup, I think what he’s saying is we are so one dimensional. We swing from the heels. We haven’t been able to play small ball for years. Pitchers figure us out in a regional towards the end That in itself pisses me off that we can’t adjust to pitching Josh pisses me with the attitude of “ oh well “ we didn’t hit in certain situations, not what we intended. I’ve heard from too many players that Rob just goes and get a pitcher when Josh tells him too …… how many times have we seen a pitcher left in one batter too long ??
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You need to reexamine what seeding is actually for. It is not who is more deserving–that’s the logic the CFP–at least some weeks. Since the committee doesn’t release its criteria (and there’s no set order of criteria), you have to assume that the purpose is to take the automatic qualifiers and then find the next best 34 teams. Then the committee must rank those teams on their records, RPI, etc. Then the committee must look at hosting abilities, etc. All that is to say that the committee is not rewarding the most deserving with seeds. It is trying to rank the best teams while balancing a host of other factors. Ultimately, it should be close to a final ranking (best to worst). Obviously, it doesn’t always pan out. Sometimes, teams get hot and overperform. Sometimes the opposite happens.
I did not say a coach’s worth is solely based upon how the season finishes. But I will say that if a coach is making top 10 or top 15 money, then his team’s performance should also be in the top 10-15 on a pretty consistent basis. If it’s not, then the university is overpaying based upon production. I would highly contest that OSU baseball is in as good as shape as its ever been. It hasn’t made a CWS in 8 years and hasn’t made it to a super regional in 5 years.
As far as expectations, OSU has poured a ton of money into baseball. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect to make to super regionals just about every year and to make it to Omaha every few years and be able to compete. Maybe it is an unfair comparison, but if Coach Gajewski, can make it to the WCWS 5 years in a row, playing against the behemoth in the sport just down the road and doing so in a crappy stadium, then Holliday should be able to do similar things with way more resources and without the string of best teams ever to compete against in the same conference.
You tie NIL to OSU’s lack of more success, but then in the same breath said ORU was a better team. Clearly, last year, NIL was not the factor. If ORU can be the better team with far fewer resources, then why shouldn’t OSU be better with way more resources? You did, in fact, imply that NIL was a reason why Holliday has faltered in the postseason. Saying, “I go nuts about giving me some NIL $$ to play with,” if you were Holliday and told to “do better.” You also seem hung up trying to imply that critics don’t understand the importance of NIL in recruiting. That is a silly thought. OSU’s lack of resources will hurt it in all sports and obviously the ability for players to make $$ in NIL will go a long way in determining where recruits go. I do think that there is quite a bit of movement with the idea of revenue sharing, etc., so the wild west of NIL as it is today may change soon. But, again, the last couple of years, OSU has had the talent on its baseball team to make a super regional and CWS. NIL is not the factor in the team’s collapse in the postseason.
No one says that NIL investments aren’t needed and won’t determine the quality of the players. I certainly have not said so or implied otherwise. Why you keep interjecting this nonsense is telling. Perhaps, you have to invent that strawman because you know Josh Holliday’s teams have underperformed for the last 8 years.
I’ll say it again, and perhaps it is unfair, but if OSU softball can consistently be so good with far fewer resources, why can’t OSU baseball?
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First off, you take A LOT of liberties in what you assume I’m saying VS what I actually said. At no point did I tie NIL to wins. But it is absolutely a factor.
I’m fully aware of what seedlings are “used for”. I’m also fully aware of how those seedings are done. And they are not any indication, in any way, done because of who someone thinks will win an upcoming game. It’s no indication whatsoever of who the actually better team is. The fact that you spent an entire paragraph arguing that……is ignorant. Seeding is done off of what you’ve done SO FAR. Not about who is better. You really think OSU was better than Arkansas, ORU & now Florida?? You’re clueless. The Cowboys were seeded higher because of what they had done prior. Period.
Comparing OSU softball success to baseball: The softball program has been pretty impressive. Very good run. You’re comparing apples to oranges. They’re different sports entirely. Softball can find 1 dominant arm and get 35 W’s out of her, including 2 in a Super Regional or 3 in a Regional. You also don’t have to fight losing those players to the draft after 2 or 3 years. Your superstars are here for the duration (I understand the portal, but baseball has it too). Injuries are far more prevalent in baseball than softball. Go look at how many innings the softball ace threw (180 of 379). That’s pushing 50% of your innings being thrown by 1 player. I’m not 100% sure how OSU does baseball/softball scholarships, but it’s likely 12 for each or a variation that’s close to that. Im not saying anything negative about Kenny or softball. I’m not saying Josh is above criticism. But using softball in Stillwater as a barometer for baseball in Stillwater is dumb.
Well if Holliday has only made one world series in 20 years, they’ll still say your crazy to want more.
Just look at Gundy’s ability to win conference titles.
Same thing!
Well said and thanks for saying it. In this day and age, OSU needs to maximize it’s return on investment. Whether that is gate revenue or national exposure, we need to achieve it. We need to position ourselves best for whatever opportunity comes in these times of conference realignment. Baseball is a major sport that OSU should excel in and I agree Josh is underperforming. I will use N.C. State as an example of a similar program hitting on all cylinders. (Final 4 hoops, 9-4 football, Supers in Baseball/ World Series 1 inning away) O-State can’t afford to be “settlers”.
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Dear God , straight mental aren’t you. No clue
Oh boy, I love the short view of history that some of you have. Coach Avent is in his 28th season at NCState. He didnt make it to Omaha until his 16th year. At one point, he had been to Omaha 1 time in 25 years. Hes now been in 21’ and 24’. Theyve NEVER won the ACC regular season or Conf tourney under him. NCState was below .500 in the Conf the two seasons prior to this one. If you people were running NCState, you wouldve fired Coach Avent well before he made his trip to Omaha. Go ahead and fire Holliday. Clowns