PFB Roundtable: Debating Our Wine Cellar Oklahoma State Basketball Team

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This one got a little testy.

This one was so fun – would love to hear everybody else’s. We landed on this …

2017 Jawun
2010 James
2004 TA
1991 Byron Houston
1995 Country

If anyone is a Randy Rutherford truther, speak now.

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That was fun to read. 95 Country is a given. Trying to debate that is folly. The hardest part of this is trying to evaluate the rest without considering NBA careers. That’s where TA and Smart get a subconscious edge over Houston, Rutherford, Anderson, etc. But since they were each incredible at OSU while having that further validated at the next level… that edge makes sense to me. The fact that Doug got so much time in the thread is kind of humorous to me. Really elite point guards have to be able to shoot free throws at least (and you have to be really elite to make this list). I am going to put my list in order of “confidence” in making this team rather than 1-5 positions.
1st - 95 Country
2nd - 04 TA
3rd - 14 Smart
4th - 95 Rutherford
5th - 04 Joey
That’s Smart at PG, Rutherford at SG, TA at SF, Joey at PF, and Country in the middle. Three of those 5 can guard anyone on the other team from 1-5. Joey seems more versatile than Houston. Rutherford’s a more elite shooter than James and people forget he was Big 8 all defensive team as well. Smart is more dominant on both ends than Jawun. Fun exercise! BTW, @kyleboone had the best quote of the roundtable - “The olds swear by Rutherford. So therefore I stand by the olds.” :sunglasses:


I was already writing it!

My team is comparable and changes with mood and or barometric pressure. I certainly won’t argue with any of them. I just want to say that no one and I mean no one, could finish better than Mo Baker. Period.


He was a superstar.

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I certainly think any “Team 2” we could come up with would have some very competitive battles with team 1 during practice. The firepower of those left off this list is amazing.

I love this but one thing no one seems to be mentioning is size. Obviously huge inside but most of these teams are really small outside of Country. While the debate can be made that they aren’t top 5, I feel like you need some size at PF like Joey Graham or even an I-Mac. Anything below 6-7 at PF is just picking favorites and not picking a starting 5. Juwan, Rutherford, TA, Smart is all 6’4" and under. Anderson is 6’6" and I like him on most of these teams. There is no perfect lineup but I like this:

PG Smart
SF James Anderson
PF Joey Graham
C Country

That team can run, score, and play D. They have good length and size. They can also have some turnovers and I can’t remember how well Country can defend outside of the paint. Thoughts?

Good arguments. I tend to think that TA and Smart defy size stereotypes which is why I had the exception.

Smart did do a masterful job of D’ing up Lebron. I could see your lineup working AZ. Its only one player different from mine. We should do an all defensive team and an all offensive team. They would be difficult as well but it would be fun exercise.

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I got to say this, but Marshall had some BAD takes. Jawun was a terrible defender. Doug was a very good defender. I was floored he even tried to bring Evans up as a defender.

And I’ll continue to say this, but Anderson might be the most under appreciated/disrespected OSU basketball player ever. He was as good of a college 2/3 player as you can get.

I think the starting 5 you have is fine, but you could easily swap Doug or JLIII for Evans and your team is just as good. You have to remember Evans was a volume shooter. With other elite players on his team, his scoring ability becomes less of a factor.

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Not untrue, but he was a way underrated passer, too.

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Doug is clearly a sentimental pic here. He was great but he wasn’t well-rounded enough to be in the discussion at the one. The team was built well for him to have high assist numbers will quality shooters and finisher like Desmond Mason.

Moe Baker deserved far more discussion, especially with the Jawun Evans’ logic. Moe had an incredible stat year with a similar achieving squad while dealing with the plane crash all at once.

Brooks Thompson was total stud and deserves some discussion here as well, maybe even at the 2 guard position. I believe he’s a better all-around player than Rutherford.

But mostly, I’m not sure how John Lucas III is glossed over here so quickly. He was Big 12 player of the year by the media in 2004 on team that went to the Final 4, won the Big 12 regular season and tournament championship. It’s really hard to leave TA and JL3 off the top 5 because they were both Big 12 Player of the year (one with coaches, and one with the media) on the most accomplished team.

My team:
Marcus Smart
Byron Houston
Big Country

PG Thompson
SG Allen
SF Mason
PF Houston
C. Reeves

I’d put Smart at PG, but with Allen at my SG, I need to choose a better 3pt shooter without sacrificing defense. Thompson was just as good a shooter as Lucas and a much better defender. Thompson led the Big 12 in steals 2 straight years. This is your best combination of defense and scoring.
My 3 off the bench are:
J. Anderson
M. Smart
Joey Graham

Rutherford was a great shoter, maybe the best ever at OSU. Thompson was a better all around offensive player and defender than Randy. Remember, they both played together in the 93-94 season. Thompson could also play PG, SG and SF. Rutherford was a below average ball handler and could only play SG. Thompson could pass better, and saw the floor better. Mo Baker is the only other player in this era versatile enough that could play PG - SF.

Joey Graham was awesome, but if he had to play a game straight up against Byron Houston in college, he would get destroyed. Byron destroyed Big 8 centers in college. So, Houston would severely hammer Graham inside (both scoring and on the boards). Houston was the best player in the Big 8 his junior and senior year (even though he only won 1 POY award). Joey Graham was the third best player on the 2004 OSU team. Houston could also shoot the 3 his senior year. This would be no contest.

You make some good arguments and no doubt Thompson, Mason, and Houston were all outstanding. I considered all of them but Thompson for my team (and I probably should have at least considered him). As for Joey the 3rd best on his team… I don’t agree with that. We both have the baby Grindfather as the best from that team, but if I was picking a team I would take Joey before Lucas every time. I’d pay to see our two teams match-up… (other than the impossibility of Country and TA being on both teams).