Am I totally nuts to think that we could let joe bob go and hire a ST coach and still be okay?
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Not in the least. Let him go, promote Richmond (who is a badass) to the role, and hire a dang ST coach and our team improves immediately.
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That’s interesting. I see a clear line drawn between recruiting and coaching (development) when they step foot on campus. Why do you see development as an arm of recruiting?
I was really hoping we would announce either an internal promotion or give QBs to someone and hire an outsider for ST this offseason. I just want us to get back to the level where it won’t cost us games.
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IMO if you can’t develop the guys you’re bringing to campus it will A: Hinder your reputation, and also the reputation as the program as a whole. B: Won’t matter how great you are at spotting the talent of you can’t grow it and also unearth gems at a school like Ok St when there are years you can’t land the big fish. Take USC or Texas for example, they Kant top talent every year, but can’t develop them. So would you want those coaches over ours? Sorry if I’m sounding scattered, just the way I look at it.
I think the Pistols Firing Blog would be a good “recruiter” if they read it…
I want to point out that Joe Bob is the THE D-Line coach. He’s the one who runs that position group. Richmond is there to recruit. Don’t get it twisted Richmond doesn’t do much of the coaching at practice.
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See, THIS is valuable information. From the outside looking in, it legitimately appears like we have two DLs coaches and one just doesn’t recruit, meaning he’s a surplus. If what you’re saying is accurate, though, that’s a bit worrisome for a few reasons, but hopefully Richmond is learning the coaching reasonably well.
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Things could’ve changed over the last season. This is just what I noticed during my time with the program. I’m not saying Richmond does nothing but recruit but that was the reason he was brought on. We all thought Gundy would hire a ST coach
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I see these skills as components that comprise a good overall coach. Dunn is the prime example here. Spots talent, coaches them up to Belitnekoff levels and high school coaches/players take note. But he started from ground zero at some point because OSU was primarily run game with Les Miles prior to Gundy taking over. That is the recruiting alpha IMO, making something from nothing (like Dickey recently). Continuing what you have already built with a full head of steam is coaching. That coaching perpetuates the cycle, but it’s at best an ancillary part of recruiting.
To flip your script, how do Texas and other blue bloods get the elite recruits when they have been perennially mediocre and even bad if the development isn’t there? Recruiting is an animal outside of development. That’s where coaching comes into play which makes them separate entities, because obviously these teams can’t develop elite talent yet they keep pulling it in.
PS No I don’t want their coaches, but that’s a different topic all together.
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Define top recruiter?
Stars
Who were the other offers
Production while at Ok St
% that stay
What about portal recruiting
Then there’s the intangible - one of the db’s who came as a transfer specifically said it was the Pokes success with another xfr who went to the nfl as the main reason he came
There are a lot of factors to consider when you decide who’s the top
Those are great points! I love the discussion everyone is bringing. Thanks for having a legit conversation about it. It’s really refreshing.
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Unpopular Opinion…
Knowles is not a great recruiter. Really, the cupboard is dry (and has been). Didn’t recruit any of the guys that are major contributors. And Rodriguez was a safety moved down to LB. I do think he is a good developer. And I think the kids like him, but I just don’t see him landing any good ones.
Wozniak isn’t either. Outside of Glass who came in as a 4 Star last year. And can’t land a guy after coaching the nation’s leading rusher. That should get you some good pub with recruits. Don’t think he is a bad coach. I also think that Justice Hill and Chuba were going to be elite with anyone as their coach (Arroyo recruited both those dudes, btw).
Underrated Recruiters…
Hammerschimdt definitely has done well as of late. I think the safety position is a definite strength.
Joe Bob & Richmond I think do more with less. I think Joe Bob is way better developer than he is recruiter. Probably has done more with less than any other coach. So hard to get top D-Lineman in the Big 12 especially when you’re not OU or Texas. I think Richmond is there to do more recruiting than coaching IMO.
Top Recruiters…
Dunn and his proof is in the pudding. No explanation there.
Dickey is a top guy. He has done nothing but pull in good recruits since coming in. Can’t wait to see the dudes he brings continues to bring on in the future.
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Singleton recruited Justice Hill.
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I think we’re both right. lol.
Singleton recruited him. Singleton left while Hill was still being recruited. Arroyo came in, and had to finish the job and carry it out to signing day.
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If AJ Green and Williams make it to the league, and Harper turns out to be a good one, what does that say about Duffie? I think that changes his perception drastically.
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I agree with you regarding the 3 key functions of top recruiters. Regarding Woz?
I’m not sure we have enough evidence to EVEN give Woz a passing grade in the ‘Development’ area …before I give him a passing grade in ‘development" I gotta’ see how Glass progresses…
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Having a ‘track record/credentials’ in development (aka - Dickey) enables the coach/recruiter to have a stronger /more meaningful dialogue with the recruit …therefore ‘development’ is a key criteria for being a successful recruiter …
The times I have attended practices Richmond was fully engaged in coaching
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I agree about Woz. He is a N/A in my book. I think putting it all in Glass is a little short sided. Not among that rude. Just that he has Jackson as well that is looking good.