Me thinks you can add a few non alum names to that list
…Travis Ford and Mike Boynton come to mind. I don’t know what they had on Mike Holder. All the alums he mentioned had success. What did Ford and Boynton ever do?
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LOL you really do know how the corporate world works. I spent 40 years working at a Fortune 500 company and that is exactly how they operated. As far as letting donor’s run the show my argument against that is that just because they have some money doesn’t make them qualified to manage a college football program.
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You’re right. Ford and Boynton had too long of a leash as well.
“People who put money in and start demanding return on investment”…Dude, youre an OSU guy. No booster in the history of boosters has ever had more say than T. Boone. Boosters and big money donors have always done that. T Boone did too. Its the nature of the beast. Those guys expect a bigger voice and a seat at the head of the table. Thats where good leadership comes in. Thats where a strong core of AD/Pres come in to keep that at bay. You need those donors money, so you allow some of it. Its how things have always been.
I can assure you ive worked. I can assure you ive gotten rid of people who were given enough time to show me they were hurting my operation. One was last December. Another was last Fri. It takes a little red tape. It takes a little extra documentation. It takes some hassle. But it happens.
There are comparisons that can be made to validate the firing of Gundy. There are comparisons that can be made to validate keeping him. The truth is that Gundy is the winningest coach in the history of the program. He did a great job. The truth is also that he has let the program slip. Hes responsible for the good years…and the bad ones. No one can argue either of those. I wont argue someone who thinks he shouldve been allowed to finish the year. I wont argue those who think firing him right now is the correct move.
The NFL is a constant remodel. Free Agency. Coordinators leaving.
You guys are being a little dramatic. I dont know of any big money donor that “runs the show”. Nor has anyone advocated for that. Did either of you think Boone managed a college football program? I would say no. But he dang sure had the loudest voice and biggest influence of any booster I can think of. Very ironic that a couple of OSU fans are arguing against big money donors having a heavy hand.
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I think thats unfair. There are very few Nick Sabans, who get to leave while on top. Gundy, Holder and Smith are legends within their sport. Legends at OSU who were the architects of the most successful runs those sports had ever seen.
Boone was an all-time megadonor and I didn’t get the impression he was making personnel decisions like I do now. I know at one point he was peeved with Gundy, but they worked it out. I am the one person on the board who doesn’t make any claim to having behind-the-scenes info, but we seem to making a bunch of chaotic, snap decisions. I really don’t know if that’s the board or the donors, but it makes me not feel confident about the state of the program and the school.
Firing him at the end of last season would’ve made a lot more sense. This nuclear hot seat scenario was a bad look and it just wastes a season. Commit to another season or don’t.
College is worse now. No NFL team has ever had the kind of roster and coaching remodel that OSU just had. Yes, entire coaching staffs change, but they come in with usually at least 75% of their starting roster the same. The Patriots had lots of remodels during the Brady era, but there was cultural consistency from year to year because they never had that kind of turnover. There were always guys around who were there last year and the year before.
“Boone was an all-time megadonor and I didn’t get the impression he was making personnel decisions like I do now” Come on. Boone was ultimately running the show. He wasnt a tyrant. He had some people who had his ear. But to think that he wasnt the heaviest hand in the land…would be wrong. So again, extremely odd for an OSU fan to now all of a sudden think its a problem.
Agree on him being fired after last season wouldve been cleaner. It also wouldve been labeled by some (id guess you included) that it was premature to do to a guy who was at that time, one year removed from a possible playoff berth. To say firing him during the season is a bad look and wastes a season is just flat wrong. You cannot slice it otherwise. OSU is not in a position in which they can simply sit around and give themselves a week to hire thier best candidate. Arkansas is opne. Florida may. OSU needs to get as much of a headstart as they can. You may not like it, But its just the fact of the matter. Plus, Gundy is a loose cannon. If im the AD, I dont want him as a lame duck coach having a mouthpiece every week. Also, what if he ends up winning 6 games? They finish .500 and it gives enough people in the Pro-Gundy camp more ammunition to keep him another year? You simply gain nothing by waiting until Dec to fire a guy if you know its over.
“College is worse now.” Youre being dramatic. Yes, there is more turnover now IN SOME PROGRAMS than there has ever been. But its not that way across the board. Go look at the top of the SEC. Go look at Ohio St. Oregon. Heck OU. Its not that way everywhere. It sucks. I miss the old days too. But its not near what some of you paint it as. “No NFL team has ever had the kind of roster and coaching remodel that OSU just had” Again, youre being dramatic. OSU had a large roster overhaul…but you dont blame some of that on Gundy?? You dont think that was a result of his stubbornness in the years prior? You dont think that some of that was due to him playing catch up? The bad coordinator hires, lack of recruiting, and the on field product is something I would blame far sooner than I blame NIL or the portal.
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Well, look, I don’t know of any instance where that happened with Boone. My understanding about Boone was that Holder told him what we needed to be competitive and Boone gave him the money to get those things and may have expressed frustration when they weren’t as competitive as promised from time to time or couldn’t get over the hump, but was usually pleased with the trajectory. I think there was a degree of trust and patience and dialogue there. That’s probably better than being crowdfunded by a bunch of large donors with a host of different priorities and voices. I’m really not ok with either, to be honest, but it’s better to have a wise monarch than a democracy of fools.
Yes, but after the big blow up, I said at the time they should’ve just fired him because I didn’t think he was going to get a real chance this season. A whole new staff and a whole new team wasn’t likely to have immediate success. That’s a setup for failure.
Ok, he’s responsible for a lot of it, but I’m just saying that level of turnover isn’t even possible in the NFL. The Micah Parsons deal in Dallas was huge offseason news and it was treated like this massive disruption. Despite all that and the coaching change, they still knew who 90% of their team was going to be.
“That’s probably better than being crowdfunded by a bunch of large donors with a host of different priorities and voices. I’m really not ok with either, to be honest, but it’s better to have a wise monarch than a democracy of fools” Of course it is. But again, youre cherrypicking in one instance and being blind to another. Donors/Boosters have always been around. Theyve always had a seat at the table. That seat has gotten larger with NIL. This is nothing new. Those guys only become a problem when you have poor leadership, which is a leadership issue. Not a donor issue. That is also something that has not changed. Holder was a Boone hire. Gundy was a Boone hire. Boone ran the athletic parts that he wanted to run. Thats not a bad thing, because he knew where he needed to talk and where he needed to listen. But again, you as an OSU fan can be mad at who the donors are or who the leadership is…but you cant be mad that your donors are pulling some strings. Thats how that football program gained all of its succes over the last 20 years.
“That’s a setup for failure” Gundy set himself and his program up for failure by making bad coordinator hires at the same time that he refused to play the NIL game, got lazy at recruiting, upset his bosses, insulted the fans, then started losing too many games. Its that simple. There is far more blame to be put on Gundy than anyone else, in my opinion.
“The Micah Parsons deal in Dallas was huge offseason news and it was treated like this massive disruption. Despite all that and the coaching change, they still knew who 90% of their team was going to be” Dude…he was traded 7 days before the season opener. Of course they knew who the team was going to be. 90% is a low estimation.
I mean, that doesn’t really follow. Just because something benefits me in the moment, I have to like it?
My point is that there was a low chance for real success this year. If you were just going to fire him after a slow start, fire him last year because it wasn’t likely to be anything but. The point you’re making only enforces this. If Gundy put himself in a bad position, all the more reason to fire him last year. If you’re bringing him back, presumably it’s because you’re giving him a chance to right the ship or fix the mess he made of you’re going to heap it on him. The problem wasn’t created in a year, so it might take some time to get it back on track. I agree Oregon and Tulsa were probably the worst two game stretch in who knows how long, but if they didn’t have the foresight to see that as a possibility before they put their hand on the wheel and made the call, then they’re foolish.
That’s my point. “Hugely disruptive” offseason shake-up in the NFL would be a minor thing in college.
“Just because something benefits me in the moment, I have to like it”…The moment was 20 years of the greatest success of your most visible program. Why wouldnt you like it?? It turned your University into a success as well and everybody who was a fan benefitted.
“My point is that there was a low chance for real success this year” Agree. But Gundy deserved the benefit of the doubt enough to give him a shot at fixing the problems that he created. He made hires in the offseason. He filled the roster. He was given the chance becuase of what he has meant to the program that he built. I have no issue whatsoever with giving him a chance. I also have no issue with them firing when when it is obvious that he couldnt turn it around. It gives the university, the players, the recruits, potential candidates…plenty of time to take the next step.
“That’s my point. “Hugely disruptive” offseason shake-up in the NFL would be a minor thing in college” I dont even know how that correlates? The offseason for college football is May-July. If you fire a coach at that point, you arent finding a good replacement because guys already have other jobs. You then run the risk of losing your roster during the summer, when the portal is at its thinnest. That literally makes zero sense. Unfortunately, due to the early signing day (Dec) and the portal window (which is Jan), the BEST time to make a move is really from Aug-Dec. That gives you time to find the right guy, keep some semblance of your HS recruiting class, hit the portal when it opens…and do what you can.
Do not put Gundy in with Smith or Holder as legends of Oklahoma State athletics.
Smith-5 Natty’s
Holder-8 Natty’s
A combined 58 conference championships between them. Gundy will never be in their stratosphere. Fair or not.
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I get that point. Well made.
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Thank you, sir.
The way I heard it Boone made the decision to hire Holgorsen. I don’t know it to be true but if it was , that probably wasn’t the only decision Boone made.
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Plus It takes some time to repair relationships with donors.
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Yeah I just dont see what is gained by waiting? Really see no option at all. I can promise you that if I had a son that was on this club, id want it done before the 4 game Redshirt is used up. If I was the parent of recruit that is committed to OSU, id want it done ASAP as opposed to 4 days before Nat Signing Day. If I was an Asst, id want it done ASAP so I can get a headstart on finding a job.
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Yea I always knew that we were just a wrestling and golf school. Those titles are so much harder to get than football titles I don’t understand why there is no respect for the achievements.