Hot Take of the Day: Why LeBron > MJ

LeBron is a better passer, but Jordan was by far a much better defensive player. I don’t know anything about your, but your take on cultural impact is like you were born 10 years after Jordan retired and have no idea what you’re talking about. He revolutionized the game and marketing and just about everything else. I still have his ‘I wanna be like Mike’ song on cassette!

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A much better defender?? Did MJ take the top players or did Pippen and Rodman? He may have guarded a few possessions but Lebron guards the number one guy A LOT and has because he’s been the only guy who can stop anyone.

Lebron when he can and wants to (this is a flaw I realize) is a top 3 defender in the league.

This is fun. Sooo much better than talking corona virus.

How does having a bigger “pop culture influence” (if he does) have any impact on being a better basketball player??? Jordan was a stone cold killer. His competitive nature combined with his skill level made him the greatest. I lost a huge amount of respect for Lebron when he joined a superteam to “rig the system”. Jordan would never have done that. He was the superteam.

Right… he was on the super team… so he didn’t have to join one.

Put MJ in the pansy NBA they play now and he averages half a hundo. No question. Are you watching any of these replays on NBA network back when they actually allowed folks to play defense? LBJ might keep his averages (unlikely), but reverse the roles and MJ goes off.

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…what… averages 50?! Hahahahaha what?!?

And the most athletic basketball player ever and physical freak is going to have an issue with a little more physicality??

Earlier this week @kyleboone said something like “the #olds swear by Rutherford, therefore I stand with the #olds.”. And now this take. :man_facepalming: I mean, this take is good for stirring the pot, and LeBron is great… but Jordan has this by a mile and I wasn’t even particularly a Jordan fan. Think of it this way. If LeBron had to go up against Jordan every year in the finals, his career would look like Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, etc. Great but no rings.

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Yup, very this.

Yup, he made the Dunk Contest fashionable.

Sidenote : I welcome debates like this again. I missed them.

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This is sooooo much better. Even though you’re all wrong :wink::wink:

I will admit and you all will blast me for it since I’m defending Bron Bron, but by the time I saw Jordan he was in a wizards jersey. Is there bias? Absolutely. But I love this debate.

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I will take you point by point about how this is wrong and narrow sighted in terms of things considered when making a point.

  1. Longevity. Jordan played three years in college. Plus was forced to retire in his prime by the NBA. That’s 5.5 years of his prime spend outside the NBA for reasons mostly outside of his control. Jordan did more in the NBA with less time than Lebron. Do the Bulls win 8 straight if Jordan isn’t forced into retirement? Possibly.

  2. Overall Impact. I will give Lebron as the better passer. That is a skill and only a few are great at it. Rebounding is more about wanting to rebound, position, and defensive scheme. Differences in rebound per game are more about this than being better or worse at it. Now, their shooting numbers are very similar. Plus, Jordan grew up without a 3 point line. However, as the 3 pointer grew in importance, Jordan improved this aspect of his game. Career numbers at 32.7% from 3 and 51% from the field. Not any significant difference in those numbers. Lastly, it is important to exam the differences in the NBA of the 80’s, 90’s, and early 2000’s to the NBA of the middle 2000’s till today. Freedom of movement is emphasized and the offensive player is given every advantage to succeed. Most would venture to say Jordan would have put up better numbers in the NBA today than he did during his time due to this rule and philosophy changes of the NBA. Just looking at statistical differences is easy and simple, but does not paint the entire picture.

  3. Cultural Impact. Lebron has mastered social media in a social media age. Jordan mastered the shoe deal before shoe deals were a thing. People still buy Jordan’s, wear Jordan brand gear, etc., and Jordan has not played since 2003. Heck, colleges have switched to Jordan Brand because of the impact it has on their athletic cultural, especially recruitment. Lebron and every other NBA player has been able to sign large shoe deals, because of Jordan. Again, different eras of technology have allowed Lebron to be “more impactful,” but in his time, Jordan was just as culturally impactful as Lebron using what was available to him. Heck, Jordan ignited more excitement with two words, “I’m Back,” than Lebron did with an hour long show about leaving Cleveland.

  4. Lebron’s teams < MJ. Maybe in the early years of Cleveland this was true, even though Jordans early teams were not overly talented. However, Lebron has played with star after star since his first stint in Cleveland. Plus, as you stated in point 3, Lebron has essentially served as coach and GM of his teams. So, his teams failures are his own doing. Plus, Lebron has played with more all-star teammates than Jordan has as well. Lebron has played in seasons where 15 teammates have made all-star games (mostly consisting of Wade, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, Davis). In comparison, Jordan has played in seasons where only 6 teammates have made all-star games. With Pippen accounting for 5 of those 6 instances. Yes, Jordan had the better long term teammate, but Lebron played in more seasons with a comparatively talented player or players on his team.

  5. Lebron will not get an 11-part documentary. Probably only gets three parts…

  6. I would venture to guess Kobe (RIP) gets a longer and more well received documentary than Lebron. I would have said that before the recent events which took his life far before it was time.

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The Robert Horry comment is funny. Like he is the only person with more rings than Jordan. Bill Russel has 11, Sam Jones has 10, K.C. Jones has 8 John Havelick has 8, Tom Heinsohn has 8, Tom Sanders has 8, Frank Ramsey has 7, Bob Cousy has 6, Kareem has 6, and Pippen has 6… All those listed are Hall of Famers… Yet, people only mention Horry who along with Jim Loscutoff (Played on Bill Russell Celtics) with more or equal rings to Jordan who are not HOFers. Horry is the product of right time, right place. Won two rings in seasons Jordan was forced out of NBA, won three because of Kobe and Shaq, and two more because of Duncan, Parker, Manu.

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I never said that Horry was as good as those guys? I think you’re making my point about rings brother. That they aren’t the end all be all argument that so many people use when talking about this debate. Tons of guys have more rings. Horry comes to kind because of exactly what you said. Big shot Bob got his rings and wasn’t an all timer. So rings are cool, but not exactly the barometer here.

Except everyone on that list except two are HOFers… People with many rings are often going to be great players. Horry is an outlier on that list. You are right that rings are not the end all be all, but when making an argument about great players it is important. When making comparisons between Jordan and Lebron as this article did, rings are important. It is an odd thing to dismiss Jordans six rings in that comparison, and to use the argument of “But Horry has more.” Kind of weakens whatever point was trying to be made.

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I would argue their influential difference is due to differences in the world. It is much easier to have a global influence with the internet and social media. If all things were equal, Jordan’s impact culturally was probably equal considering the tools and technology available to him at the time.

I never dismissed it. Just stated that the argument of “HE HAS MORE RINGS SO HES BETTER” is a dumb take. Are any of those guys as good as MJ or Lebron? Absolutely not. But they have rings.

Jordan has 6 and lebron has 3. Jordan was always favored in his finals. Lebron hasn’t been and has pulled an upset even for one of his and has a fantastic chance at another if JR smith pays attention.

MJ never had to drag a team of Larry Hughes and drew Gooden to a finals. Or Jordan clarkson and Rodney Hood.

As far as the influence, sure MJ could have been as influential if he had the tools. But I specifically remember in an interview with teammates that Jordan wasn’t about cultural influence and making change. He was about money and basketball and gambling. Which is fine. It’s more than fine. But Lebron takes it upon himself to make that influence known and uses his platform the best of any athlete. He botched the China thing this year but other than that he’s incredibly put together about that stuff.

LeBron didn’t have to either. He chose to go back to Cleveland… Outside of LeBron’s rookie deal he has been able to move teams and have a big say in who he plays with. If LeBron has bad teammates that’s on him. If you are so great shouldn’t people want to play with you in an era of stars switching teams ad nausea?

A player having success in one spot is greater than someone else chasing it by switching teams multiple times. You get one after your rookie deal to get setup in a better spot after that I feel it hits your legacy each time you move.

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I get that, but when people use Horry in that argument, it kind of shows an attempt to dismiss them. Even things like, “but they have rings” read as a dismissive. Russell is one of the greatest players ever, Kareem as well. Those two are often included in people mount Rushmore’s of basketball.

Lebron has been favored twice in the finals, and went 1-1 in those finals. Jordan was an underdog once in the finals and won.

You are right MJ never did that. Lebron also never won until he team up with Wade and Bosh. There are two sides to that argument.

I would also argue, even though he wouldn’t say it, 90% of the reasons Lebron uses social media and influence as he does is to make money. He has a team of people that help him run that part of his life in order to make MONEY. He is a business person, interested in making money.

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Perfect statement.

Talk about Pippen being a great #2 guy are true and they were together for all 6 titles. But the other pieces of Jordan’s teams rotated. PF went from Grant to Rodman. Outside shooter went from Hodges, to Paxson, to Kerr. Center went from Cartright to Longley/Wennington. He won with all the combinations.

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