If that includes losing to OU every single year, then yes, we should BY ALL MEANS have higher standards.
One of our program’s priorities should be beating our in-state rival. I don’t understand why people are willing to surrender that.
Did you know that none of our home games in the last five seasons are ranked in the top 15 all-time attendance records?
That hasn’t been updated in the last five seasons. We’ve had several sellouts of the 2017-2018 configuration which was 56,790. Several games in the old 60K seat configuration would have made it as well.
I don’t understand why people are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Our in-state rival is a top 4 program that is at peak success right now. It’s unrealistic to expect to surpass them.
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Maybe it hasn’t been, but that’s what’s currently up.
Why is that unrealistic? They’ve always been in that position.
Which is why we, nor any program really, has surpassed them or consistently beaten them.
Even in the Mack Brown era, their highest high outside of the 1960s, Texas didn’t beat OU more than twice in a row.
I would love to beat OU more often… and I’m glad that the game is consistently competitive, giving us a chance to win more often… but it’s delusional to expect to beat them on a regular basis.
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Here’s the thing: this is exactly the sort of topic that shows how differently fans approach things.
On one hand, you have fans that point out that we used to be horrible before we got here and should be grateful. This can also take the form of approaching things with the belief that we need to understand our place in things and where we stand as opposed to other places, including with recruiting and expected win totals. For these fans, even remotely considering getting rid of Gundy is foolish because there’s no guarantee we could be better. These are not unreasonable beliefs!
On the other, you have fans that point to Gundy’s record against OU, the lack of Big 12 titles, and recruiting that legitimately does not seem to be improving. This can also take the form of being frustrated with apparent stagnation as a program and a refusal to accept that we couldn’t be better than we are right now. For these fans (of which I am one), in order to be better, change is necessary - this can take the form of Gundy changing his style and recruiting or a change in leadership. Even if you don’t like it, these are not unreasonable beliefs either!
The problem is that these two perceptions are seen as mutually-exclusive, which they aren’t. It is absolutely reasonable to believe that Gundy is the best coach we’ve ever had and may ever have and that we need to accept that we are at a certain place in college football while ALSO believing that we have not hit our absolute ceiling and that there are internal factors (playcalling, recruiting, etc.) surrounding Gundy that are keeping/have kept us from reaching our actual potential after 2011.
People talking about Gundy’s future likely don’t hate him and want him fired immediately. I absolutely don’t. I don’t even expect that change would come until a third straight 7-6 season. People talking about how Gundy is the best we’ve had aren’t wrong and likely don’t want the program to stagnate either.
It’s perception. We’re all fans and we all see different paths and definitions of success. So, rather than shutting these conversations down with mockery and sarcasm, let’s talk through them and see if there’s a place where we can all support Cowboy Football and hate the Sooners.
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When someone posts that they aren’t happy with 10-2 because they are a perfectionist, that’s simply condescending.
There’s no discussion because that person has convinced themselves and is trying to convince everyone else of their superiority.
The only way to reply to something/ someone like that is mockery.
If Gundy is a t15 winning % coach it seems that the ceiling is just below the penthouse with an occasional visit to the top floor.
There’s nothing wrong with that, Clemson took a flyer, it worked, Nebraska took a flyer it didn’t. There are more Nebraskas than Clemsons.
If you believe the risk is worth the reward or consequences depending on the outcome, then that’s a worthwhile discussion that can be had, if on the other hand, someone just wants to beat their chest, that’s a one-way useless discussion and deserves the responses it receives.
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That’s just it though. Although I freely admit that it could have been an actual deleted post, even though it has disappeared if so, it really appears right now that literally nobody in this thread mentioned being unhappy with 10-2 or being a perfectionist. Not a single person. Not even edited out. The only comment near to that was mentioning that we should be beating our rival more than once a decade - that’s it. It’s one thing to disagree with a point being made. That happens. It’s another to go after the person. However, EVEN IF that post exists and EVEN IF you feel it’s condescending or deserving of mockery…why bother responding in kind? You say it deserves the responses it gets and the only way to respond is mockery, but how is that in any way helping things? I admit that I can and have gotten down in the dirt here, even recently, but man, it is exhausting and not fun and it honestly isn’t worth the effort anymore. Believing that the only response to something you don’t like is mockery is…we can be better. We can disagree and even outright dislike what someone says, but we don’t need to be a-holes about it. One really good way to avoid it is to not read intent into questions. I’m trying to be better - so should we all. We’re all Pokes here, so let’s not behave like Sooner bags.
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There was a post that specifically stated the poster was a perfectionist even if a record wasn’t discussed (it was) that’s simply trying to convince everyone, including yourself, of your superiority.
I know who posted it and I know the thread (not this one) but what’s the use in pointing it out, that poster knows as well, if it was deleted, I haven’t looked, it doesn’t change the purpose it means they either were embarrassed they posted it or they realized how it made them look or they didn’t delete it.
I think a discussion on whether a potential for drop off, perhaps substantial or maybe just more 7-6, is worth pursuing the gold ring, could be a lively and entertaining discussion. That’s not the discussion I see here
Then we can try to get it to that point and I think we can. I think it’s worth discussing at which point Gundy could be on a hot seat (likely not until a third 7-6 season in a row) or SHOULD be (risk/reward sort of thing). I’m just going to keep pushing for us to get past assuming we know what people are thinking or doing and aim to be better than we are. I fully admit my part in some of the heatedness across the entire forum and I’m sorry for that. But I’m tired of fighting. We can disagree and be reasonable at the same time and that’s my goal from here on out.
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He needs to beat OU.
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Gundy won’t be on the hot seat even if he goes 0-12. Pat Jones was there two or three years after 0-10-1. Everyone thinks he built it so it’s his to destroy.
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If you were the AD, do you fire Pat Jones when you go on probation or do you keep him around through the probation and make him take all the Ls that result from the probation? I think today you have to fire him, but there is logic to doing what was done.
Well, I think we have found the worst topic on this forum.
It’s amazing to me a lot of OSU fans don’t realize we’re closer to the current state of the Arkansas program once Gundy leaves than we are OU.
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The first comment on the celebration of life post on the main blog is “Gundy should’ve worn a tie.”
The man can’t do anything right… it’s pretty shocking how far the fan base has turned on him.
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Saw that. Embarrassing.
Then create a new topic and let’s have that discussion. If it stays on course it’ll be interesting.