Like I said he does coach. I am no longer at practice everyday so I didn’t get to see him this past season. I was basing it on my observation of him during my time there when I was working with the defense. He always was involved in coaching. I was just saying that Joe Bob runs that group and is the main coach. I should’ve worded that better. No disrespect to Richmond. Great guy and super nice. I’m sure he’s gotten better as a coach
A 2,000 yard rusher is not enough evidence??
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A 2000 yrd RB is great ‘starting’ evidence (Wozniak has been Chuba’s only RB coach). But, I am a guy that places a ‘higher’ value on ‘trends’ … seeing ‘another’ RB develop under Wozniak would start process of winning me over …right now I see Wozniak as poor recruiter and doubtful that he has had much impact on Chuba …
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I thought we liked Joe Bob?
‘We’ might not but evidently HCMG does otherwise he’d be in Vegas
Anointing Dunn as the best recruiter on the staff (which I know is a very popular opinion) is what most people do when viewing recruiting, just look at the surface level. Dunn has done an ok job, but when you consider the WR prestige at OSU, it should be easy to recruit. When you gauge each position relative towards it’s individual difficulty, it gives you more clear picture. For example:
Tier 1 - OL/DT/QB are the most important positions on the field, and generally these positions very rarely stray from top programs because they’re heavily influenced by coaching and generally take the longest to prepare to be starter ready. They’re also the hardest to take under recruited kids and make them good/great players. OSU should be able to recruit QB’s easily, and have little to sell in terms of OL/DT. Any time OSU gets a big time recruit at OL/DT it is a huge win, and we should expect to land big time recruits at QB.
Tier 2 - TE/DE/EDGE/CB are blend of raw athleticism but heavy emphasis on technique. There are almost no teams in the Big 12 that have true quality hybrid TE’s, pass rushers are always a luxury (OSU got lucky with Ford), and CB’s might be the most technique heavy position on the field. OSU has a good history of producing CB’s to the NFL, but defensive perception doesn’t help. TE/DE/Edge doesn’t have much to offer in terms of prestige at OSU, and move to new defensive scheme will make even harder to recruit pass rushers, so any player landed who is super talented here is a big win.
Tier 3 - WR/RB/LB/Safety this is where you can make your money as a coach in player development. There are a ton of kids out there that are 3 stars who can turn into really good players at these positions. As long as you have good athletic profile, you can coach them up to bridge the gap between low and highly ranked players. Recruiting WRs and RBs should be incredibly easy, and there are enough good 3 star LBs and Safeties to fill up your roster with high quality players. Landing 4 star caliber players in this area should be both expected and can help your team, but the separation between 3 and 4 star players in this area is smaller than other positions.
I think if you’re able to pull in a talented recruit at OL, DT, TE, Edge or CB it could mean 2x or 3x the impact than it would if you pulled in a similar player the WR/RB/LB/Safety position. Mainly because OSU doesn’t have the prestige to recruit these positions (so huge recruiting win relative towards position prestige), and the path to developing under recruited players at OL, DT, TE, EDGE or CB is much longer.
So to summarize - landing Trent Pullen (who is the #1 rated OL we’ve signed since 2012) is a bigger deal than landing Deondrick Glass and Langston Anderson. Although Pullen is ranked below both in terms of recruiting rankings.
I think Dunn, Dickey and Duffie are probably the best on the team with little separation between them or next group. Hammer, Mcendoo, and Joe Bob/GRich are fine and Wozniak is clearly the worst. I’m hesitant to comment on the Coordinators because the position coaches are the main recruiting POC’s with exception of QBs.
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BTW here is a list of the top 14 OL signees that will actually make it to campus (basically not including Tramonda Moore) since 2011. Left number is 247 rating. 10 of the 14 are on the roster right now, that is called upgrading your talent. I think real answer is Josh Henson/Charlie Dickey combo is the best recruiter.
.9088 Michael Wilson 2012
.8817 Trent Pullen 2020
.8796 Eli Russ 2020
.8742 Cole Birmingham 2019
.8739 Travis Cross 2011
.8710 Bryce Bray 2018
.8672 Paul Lewis 2012
.8668 Tyrese Williams 2018
.8647 Jacob Farrell 2018
.8613 Cade Bennett 2020
.8601 Taylor Miterko 2019
.8601 Preston Wilson 2019
.8590 Johnny Wilson 2015
.8573 Hunter Woodard 2019
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Great posts.
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The almost complete lack of 2013-2017 on this list is really telling. S/O to the end of the Wickline days + Greg Adkins for completely gutting one of the most important groups on the field.
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What does it look like going back to beginning of Gundy era?
I think running back has been a hard sell right during the last few years. So it will be hard to determine what talent we have had. RB is so dependent on offensive line.
The data pre-2010 on 247 is kind of sketchy IMO, so I usually try to avoid it. At that time Rivals was really the only reliable recruiting resource. I don’t have the data from Rivals.
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I disagree, no reason they shouldn’t land solid play-makers at RB given the position history and offense. Whether that means they’re 2 stars or 4 stars.
With exception of 2014/2015, OL issues were inflated by the fan base.
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I think we should absolutely be able to recruit RBs no matter what. By my count, 5 of our last 6 starting RBs have gone on to have NFL careers or in Chuba’s case, well on his way to having one (Hunter, Randle, Carson, Hill, and Chuba, with Roland as the only one who didn’t). If we can’t sell that, there’s something really wrong.
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I know this is late. But the perception is often more powerful for things like this than the truth. The offensive line has not looked good. I liked your analysis on your pod showing how often it wasn’t their fault. This still doesn’t mean they do not come off looking bad.
Additionally, watching justice hill getting constantly hit in the backfield would not make me want to come to Oklahoma State to play running back. Also seeing Carson kill it in the NFL and have pedestrian numbers at Oklahoma State would hurt too.
He is not the recruiter Arroyo was. But he was special. Wozniak should have had someone this cycle with the season we just had. I’ll give you that. But when people think of Oklahoma State under Gundy, they don’t think of running backs.
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There are certain examples of OL play not being great for sure, to your point about Hill getting hit in the backfield. Also the leap taken in 2019 was significant (proven by metrics also), further proving your point that OL play wasn’t as high pre-2019. But what I’m implying is there are times when plays don’t pan out when on the surface it seems as if the OL didn’t do their job and in reality it was something else. (numbers advantage, poor play call etc.)
This comment is subjective and really only way I can back it up is saying I watched a lot of game film, which isn’t great evidence, but I do think that this happens a lot. Also if you look at yards/carry by RBs since 2016 it’s been very healthy.
Nonetheless, the OL in terms of coaching and talent is trending up which is a good thing.
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Yes I’m very excited for the trend of the offensive line, and look forward to hearing your analysis of their play this upcoming season.
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Rudolph was a good get, but lets not forget he had no offers from Clemson, South Carolina, or UNC. That is evaluation and smart targeting. Great recruiting IMO would have been closing on Patrick Mahomes that year instead of Texas Tech getting the signature.
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At the same time, let’s also not forget that he did have an offer from LSU, among others. Not like nobody else wanted him.
As far as Mahomes, I don’t recall. Did we offer him?
One of 3 Power 5 teams I believe that offered. Also, could’ve been a non-committable offer if we prioritized Rudolph. Also, LSU has been known to be trash a QB. Last year was an anomaly for them.