I think your assessment is fair. And no, I don’t know what Cincinnati’s record is. I think BYU is like 2-1 or something after beating Baylor and losing to Oregon. It looks like we are thinking about different things when we talk about the conference being okay nationally. All I am saying is that if a UCF takes care of business in the Big 12, they won’t be left out of the playoff. We will probably be considered the 3rd best conference still, IMO.
One of the arguments that I have made recently is that:
Cincinnati - in the playoff last year
UCF - more than one undefeated season in the last 10 years
OSU - 2 near miss championship appearances followed by Fiesta Bowl wins
Houston - has been very strong posting double digit win seasons recently
Baylor - narrowly won the conference last year and defeated an SEC team in a bowl
BYU - comes in with some national appeal (though I haven’t watched them play before this year)
Marquee games? Um… BYU- Baylor might be a good one. OSU-UCF. Aaannnddd… OSU-Baylor. Just a guess. I assume it will be like it is with OU and Texas now though. When OU plays a ranked conference opponent, more people are watching. When they play Kansas, only the fan bases are watching.
Cincinnati - in the playoff last year. It required them going undefeated AND beating Notre Dame. They then got in as the 4 seed. They lost to Arkansas in week 1 this year and will be irrelevant the rest of the year
UCF - Theyve had 2 undefeated REGULAR seasons and 1 undefeated season overall…which didnt even get them into the playoff nor did they finish top 5 in the final rankings. They lost to Louisville a few weeks ago and will be irrelevant the rest of the year.
OSU - 2 near miss championship appearances followed by Fiesta Bowl wins. Both of those seasons the Cowboys elevated their national relevance by winning marquee Conf matchups against OU. They also had Texas wins under their belt. Those will not be available going fwd.
Houston - has been very strong posting double digit win seasons recently. Ok…Houston does not belong in this discussion of elevating your reputation as a Conf.
Baylor - narrowly won the conference last year and defeated an SEC team in a bowl. Yes they did. Baylor is a solid program right now.
BYU - comes in with some national appeal (though I haven’t watched them play before this year). Agreed they have “some national appeal”. But tell me the last time youve seen BYU as the topic of discussion in the college football landscape? They have one game of note every year and thats Utah…and that game really only matters when both teams are really good.
BYU_Baylor…they just played in back to back years and id guarantee you no one on this site watched much of either game. Thats the same for the rest of the college football viewers. OSU-UCF? No. That game will do nothing nationally. OSU-Baylor could. But if you are saying that the Baylor-OSU game would be “like it is with OU and Texas now”…no sir. That is not the case.
You seem like a good, solid OSU fan. You tell me what two games annually you look forward to the most? Its OU and Texas. I understand there are other teams that will pop up like Baylor or TCU or Iowa St. But if every team in this Conf was 5-5…OSU fans & the networks would still show up to watch OSU-TX or Bedlam. That isnt the case for those other teams you mentioned
I don’t expect OSU-Baylor to ever be OU-TX. Its not a rivalry and as such lacks the fire, not to mention the history.
I’m not sleeping on UCF. Additionally, the 2nd year they went undefeated the playoff consisted of 13-0 Bama, 13-0 Clemson, 12-1 OU, and 12-0 ND. A 12-1 Ohio State was left out so its no surprise that an undefeated G5 was left out.
Honestly though, how many non-blue bloods, no matter conference, would get a playoff bid without being undefeated?
Third best conference at best… ok, which conference is going to jump them without OU and Texas? Also the “at best” jab is silly. I don’t think there’s any doubt. The raided Pac-12? Obviously not.
The ACC? The ACC is being held up by Clemson. They try to make FSU and Miami happen sometime, but they are perpetually unable to relaunch. If FSU, Clemson, and Miami could all clambor back into national contention for 3/4s of a season before we establish our new conference, maybe. I’m not real worried about that, though, since they usually have faded into the background (except for Clemson) by the halfway mark. Without Dabo, the ACC would be a laughingstock by now.
I predict we’ll still be the 3rd rated conference which still gives us playoff avenues even with 4 teams, but since we’re moving to 12 teams, we’ll probably get 2-3 teams in yearly which gives us a chance to showout against the lesser conferences and the better conferences to booster the brand. If, as I believe, the SEC and Big 10 are often overrated, we’ll have more “shocking” wins out of the Big XII than shocking losses. A 8-9 matchup between OSU and whoever the overrated 3rd best SEC team is? Can’t ask for better than that.
First off, im not trying to jab anyone. I enjoy the discussion. I dont disagree with your feeling of the new look Big 12 being solid in the 3 spot. Oregon and Utah could drag the PAC in a given year. Clemson could get help from FSU, Miami, Va Tech or North Carolina in a given year. Im not pumping sunshine for those other Conf’s…but you guys act like the new additions to the Big 12 are clearly better. I agree that they CAN be. But you guys seem unwilling to see anything other than the absolute optimistic point of view. The history of these new additions isnt very good.
You say the new look has an avenue even if it were 4 teams…I agree but that window is MUCH smaller without OU and Texas pelts on the Cowboys wall.
The ACC is currently not very good outside of Clemson. But Miami and FSU have potential. They have a history of doing quite a bit of damage, which is more than what the new Big 12 will have. You have seemingly dumped on the ACC with Clemson, FSU and Miami…but what do you have to hang your hat on with the members of what the Big 12 will be? You picked apart the ACC and rightfully so. But you may need to take that same critical approach to UCF, BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, Baylor and so on. There is not a single shred of a program with any kind of history that FSU or Miami has. There is not a signle shred of a program with the kind of current success that Clemson has. Im not taking a shot at the Big 12, im just not seeing you being willing to see any of the flaws
As for you saying the new look will “probably get 2-3 teams in yearly” is a stretch to me. The Conf winner will automatically get in. So that will leave 6 at large berths. I think the Conf will more often than not get 2. I think there are far more instances in which they get 1 team as opposed to them ever getting 3.
You think the SEC is overrated. The Conf has 10 of the last 13 Titles. Those were won by 5 different programs. The last 3 titles were won by 3 different schools. How the hell is that an overrated Conf?
It’s one thing to say you’re willing to play a game when the logistics aren’t really there; it’s quite another to cancel existing contracts for non-conference games, play multiple top 10 programs in your non-conference slate. Would OU play Clemson and OSU in the same year non-conference schedule? What about OSU and Michigan? Don’t be ridiculous–they wouldn’t and OSU is not going to pay cancellation fees to teams to play OU and Alabama or Oregon in non-conference games in the same season. Added to that is the fact that the Big 12 plays 9 conference games to the SEC’s 8. The game can only happen if OSU makes huge concessions (either cancellation fees or playing two insane ooc games a year). OU doesn’t have to do anything to make it happen (as they’ve cancelled future SEC ooc games). Hence, it’s on OU that Bedlam is ending.
To your other points, OSU has everything to lose playing Bedlam. The series, for whatever reason, has been lopsided, even when the teams have been pretty much equal (or OSU the better team which has happened several times during Gundy’s tenure). A Bedlam loss hurts OSU. An OU loss, with it being a “blueblood” does not hurt nearly as much. They are artificially ranked so high in preseason because of their helmet decal, they can withstand dropping several places in the polls and still make the playoff. Television ratings-wise, it’s good for OSU, but that’s the only advantage.
Other sports have more than 3 out of conference contests. Baseball and softball play over 60 games. Even basketball plays 30 games. No sport, other than football schedules games based on television and in no other sport are you disqualified from even a chance of playing for a national title if you lose one game. I would be surprised if Bedlam continued in its same form (home/home games each season) in other sports, if they even play at all.
“Would OU play Clemson and OSU in the same year non-conference schedule?” Of course not. No idea what the relevance of that is? What about OSU and Michigan?
"OSU is not going to pay cancellation fees to teams to play OU and Alabama or Oregon in non-conference games in the same season" Those contracts are gotten out of all the time. Cancellation fees dont pertain to every game that each of those programs have added. OU and Georgia dropped theirs with no fee.
"The game can only happen if OSU makes huge concessions (either cancellation fees or playing two insane ooc games a year)" Again, the landscape is changing constantly. No idea really what youre getting at here.
"Hence, it’s on OU that Bedlam is ending" Again, its semantics. I couldnt care less really. I just find it pretty funny that you guys think the OU people/brass handle their business any differently than how the rest of the programs do.
"OSU has everything to lose playing Bedlam" That is absolutely false. Do you think a resume that is 11-1 without a Bedlam win looks the same to the college football world as an 11-1 record with a Bedlam win? The answer is a resounding NO.
"A Bedlam loss hurts OSU" All losses are negative. But an OU loss hurts OSU very little…while the OU win is a major boost to the Cowboys.
"Television ratings-wise, it’s good for OSU, but that’s the only advantage" If you think Bedlam only effects TV-ratings…then youre wrong. It effects your TV deal you can get. Your recruiting. Your income as a program. If its a Gameday scenario, it effects your PR campaign for a week.
Lots of big posts here so sorry TLDR. But on the issue of national exposure, recognition etc I think that the 12 team playoff is going to help. Teams in the B12 will have a better opportunity to gain cred with on the field performance in the playoffs instead of depending on the national media B10/SEC homer morons.
Ok, this has been a point that a few people have made. Has the loss of A&M-TX hurt the sport? Has the loss of Kansas-Mizzou hurt the sport? Will the loss of Bedlam hurt the sport? Go look at what the big time national rivalries are…and show me one that isnt being played anymore? the rivalries that the masses care about, that drive ratings/TV contracts/$$ are in tact or have been replaced with other ones. OU fans or people that support/love the program will be disappointed on some level with losing the Bedlam game. But it is being replaced with home/home series with LSU/A&M/Bama/Georgia and so on. How in the world will losing a rivalry like Bedlam effect the sport negatively when you are replacing it with BETTER games!!! You people act like ALL of the rivalries are going away. Mich-Ohio St. OU-TX. Georgia-Florida. USC-ND. Auburn-Bama. Florida St-Miami. Those and many, many others are still in tact. How many of you waited all week to sit down and watch KU-Mizzou!!! Or TX-A&M!!! Hell one poster on here tried to bring up OU-Neb and he didnt even realize that annual rivalry went away 20 years ago. The formation of the big 12 ended that rivalry…yet I doubt anyone was screaming that it was going to kill the sport
OU and Georgia dropped their game because they will be in the same conference by the time the series would be complete! Of course, there wouldn’t be a fee for members of the same conference. Don’t be glib.
The relevance of comparing OU playing Clemson and OSU or Michigan and OSU in the same year is because in order to keep the Bedlam series without major disruptions.
Obviously, a 11-1 record with a win over OU is a good record and MIGHT get you in the playoffs if you win the conference (remember Baylor and TCU), but what about a 10-2 record? Do you think OSU or Baylor would get in the playoff with a 10-2 record and a conference title? Absolutely not.
A Bedlam loss hurts OSU more than a win helps. Because of OU’s blueblood status, a loss to a ranked OSU is not nearly as devastating as an OSU loss to a ranked OU. It’s just fact that voters are biased towards big names and give them the benefit of the doubt, especially with preseason rankings (which affect the entire season rankings).
Again, don’t be glib. Ratings are what determines TV deals, which in turns, determines payout, income, etc. That’s a given, However, I doubt the Bedlam game has much of a positive impact on OSU’s recruiting as the schools tend to have different philosophies. Gameday is irrelevant, but just for clarity has been to Norman and Stillwater 2x each in the last 10 years–Bedlam at both places, and ND (Norman) and Baylor (Stillwater). Not a factor at all.
I think I understand your position here but I think this really destroys the core of what makes college football great. Its not really about what the masses want, at least not to most fans. Its about “your” school. Killing the small rivalries furthers the power of the blue blood while diminishing the enthusiasm of the less prominent schools.
The only way to really combat this is to create new rivalries, which is actually difficult to do. People have tried to make OSU-TTech a rivalry for 20 years and its gone nowhere. We just aren’t rivals. But, they could make new rivalries simply by putting a trophy at stake and giving it a catchy name. For example, I think they would be wise to immediately create a name for the BYU Baylor game and make a trophy that one of the teams takes home each year. Won’t matter initially but it will instill some pride in the teams that win and some desire in the teams that don’t. I think its harder to create that with long time conference foes.
I say again…you get it. Thank you for being a breath of fresh air on this thing.
Ive said that I hate that its changing. I hate how its losing some of the nostalgia that College Football once was. But…its not diminishing the product. It may eliminate some lesser programs…but it may not. I mean you have people on this very thread talking about how the playoff is going to allow 2-3 teams from the new Big 12 to get into the playoff…and then others saying that the direction is killing the game. OSU’s odds of winning a Conf and getting into the playoff have increased and so have the odds of many other schools similar to the Cowboys…yet somehow losing rivalries is going to kill the game??? That makes zero sense to me.
Again, you’re being glib and fallacious. I did not say being on Gameday does not have benefits, I said it’s irrelevant to Bedlam since it’s only been at the Bedlam host a few times since the show began in 1993.
Any loss hurts a non-blueblood program like OSU more than any win helps. Heck, back in the BCS days OU got obliterated by a 3 loss Kansas State team in the 2003 Big 12 championship and still made the national championship game. Just last year, Georgia lost to Alabama in the SEC title game and still made the playoffs. In 2017, Bama gets beat by Auburn, doesn’t make the SEC championship game and still gets in the playoff while an undefeated UCF doesn’t. Losing, even losing late in the season, doesn’t hurt blueblood programs. Losing any game kills the chances of programs like OSU. An expanded playoff may make that different, but we’ll see. To think a loss to OU doesn’t kill OSU’s chances at the playoff (or even top bowl) is clueless.