And see, I’m conflicted because I also agree about the competitive advantages that exist. Biologically, girls and boys are different. But at the same time, are we really so concerned with the outcomes of high school athletics that we are willing to deprive a portion of the population opportunities just because we don’t like their biology? These kids aren’t in bad faith choosing to be transgender. I don’t know. I’m not trying to debate, just trying to process.
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That’s a fair point. But when potential scholarship opportunities are in play, it does matter. And are we also depriving other athletes from being able to compete? It’s a complicated question.
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I agree. It is a very complicated situation.
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It’s important to girls as individuals. For example, in Alaska and Connecticut, biological females have missed out on qualifying for state in track because they finished in 4th place at the qualifying meet, and a trans girl won. Had that trans athlete not been allowed to compete, the biological girl would’ve finished in the top 3 and qualified for state. I think it’s more about how important it is to individual girls. Those finishes and results could have a big impact on college recruiting and scholarships. To me it’s not about how society as a whole feels about high school sports, but to girls on a personal and individual level who work so hard only to have a biological male beat them out. Women have had to fight for more equality in sports with Title IX and everything else, this just seems like a step backward.
I don’t know where you draw the line, though. Do you require trans kids to be on puberty blockers for so long and then test their hormone levels to see how close they are to biological females? I had to take a class last summer where we discussed a lot of these topics, and I still don’t feel like there is a good answer. I think the Division II and smaller levels of college athletics are having to deal with the issue more than Division I at this point.
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Yeah, I definitely agree about scholarship issues but how many kids are actually missing out on scholarships because of trans athletes? That feels like “well think of all the predators that are going in the wrong bathrooms to harm our kids” to me. More boogeyman bad faith one offs than actual problems that exist in bunches. But at the same time, the whole point of this is to protect the interest of the kids and a marginalized group is potentially losing out on both ends of this. We’ve all seen the difference in resources handed out between men’s and women’s sports and we know the biological differences that make the male body different. We’ve also seen laws passed in states (or tried to) that don’t allow kids to fully make transitions or take away health care rights from transitioned individuals. It is so complicated. I don’t know how to feel.
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At this point I don’t think many are missing out on scholarships, but it’s still a relatively new issue. However, from a female athlete perspective, even one is too many in my opinion. A biological girl should not miss an opportunity to play her sport in college for someone like in the picture above. Coming from a female sports’ perspective and someone who still gives lessons and coaches, I just have really strong feelings against it.
Also, since it is such a small percentage of the population and such a small issue at this point, again, it’s beyond frustrating that the NCAA thinks they need to step in and threaten to remove events from places. Even the NCAA has rules in place for these athletes and how long they have to be on hormone treatment, etc., so I don’t know why they’re making such a huge issue of it.
There isn’t one. Either you care about human rights or you don’t.
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Stop having men’s and women’s sports. Have classes based on skills. Candace Parker could have played D1 men’s hoops.
Because of my doctoral work and some of the research I’ve done, I actually found that story and picture all on my own…not from “a bigoted clown.” Would you like more examples of the unfairness? I’ve researched this topic a lot.
Also, softball and baseball are very different, so saying, let’s have categories based on skill is not a great idea. Candace Parker still would’ve struggled many times against biological men based on strength if nothing else.
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@Dribble, I think you’re a good person, but the conclusions and comments and generalizations you’re making about me and this topic are not great. I have an opinion I feel very strongly about and have examples to support why I feel that way. Saying things like “handing out PhD’s in transgender hate” because I don’t agree with this issue isn’t a good comeback. I was just using it so you know I’m not some crazy, backwards, uneducated person, and I have come to this conclusion through careful research and a lot of thought and discussions even with people who don’t agree with me.
If you really think that the person I shared a picture of has no advantage based on height and strength alone regardless of their “stat line”, I don’t know what to tell you. Like I said, if you want more examples, I can provide them. Don’t tell me I’m hating when you sound pretty hateful towards me. I hope you have a good day! I really have to do actual work now.
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Seems to me the science supports drawing a line at testosterone levels, not necessarily some conception of “gender”. Funny enough, that’s largely what the current policy of OSSAA for Oklahoma high school sports is.
The NCAA policy is based on hormone levels as well. An athlete has to have been on hormone treatment for at least a year, and then they test them.
I mean this is where I really only find issue with the argument. We don’t really like the way someone looks so we dismiss their identity. That’s a tough one to swallow to be honest. I’m 100% with you on the conflicts on the other points, this one I’m just at a loss on.
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I didn’t take it as not liking how the person looked, other than there are obvious attributes that would give a physical advantage (height, weight and muscle). Just an alternative interpretation of the comment.
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That’s exactly what I meant. It’s now about how they look, but clear physical advantage instead, which is quite obvious in the photo to the point it’s almost laughable. Also, this person was like 52, so it makes the story even more strange that they were on a juco basketball team.
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I’m just going to pose a hypothetical: my daughter is 2 years, 9 months smaller by bone structure. She is 13 and 4’ 7” and about 72 lbs. She is outside the norms as measured by endocrinologists and will undergo testing to measure her growth hormone in a couple of weeks.
Should she get to compete as a 10 year old? It’s not fair that she is physically outside the norms of growth deviations, theoretically speaking. Her girl & boy peers have 5-8 inches & the accompanying muscle mass…
To me it’s basically the same thing. No one is going to chose to be trans to take advantage of amateur sports. So unless my kid can join the 10 and under softball team I don’t see a difference between size deviations that already regularly occur in girls & boys sports. 
Every year you see photos of the Little League World Series and someone who is supposedly 9 looks like they are 20.
(Note: I’m being facetious and I know it’s also about hormone levels. I’m much more comfortable with sporting organizations making rules than legislation banning things at the state or national level. Just my thoughts.)
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Are we ok with trans men playing in male sports if they’re good enough to make the team or earn the scholarship?
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Guess it depends. Is there something biological that would give them a competitive advantage over the male counterpart? If so, then I think the answer would be the same for however you feel when the roles are reversed.
This was my other thought. If we’re going to start moving qualifiers for Transpeople then it should be moved for those who only meet age requirements but not physical requirements.
I would prefer we protect human rights over the other problems stated within. If we focus on human rights, it makes the rest of it easier.
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