Fine, I was wrong. They improved by 15 spots.
Why dnt you gt some sleep. He was 9th at osu then went down 15 at tosu. Kinda of weird since he got better players.
What part of going from 38th in total defense to 23rd in total defense doesnât stand out as an improvement to you? His defense also improved every single year he was in Stillwater. I know you canât stand the fact that people praised Knowles over Gundy, but câmon man. Donât you think youâre being a little childish here?
Lol you can praise all you want. Just another flase god for you to worship. Knowless doesnt care about this osu.
You had problems finding friends.
This had me thinking back on the crossroads that Bob faced. They got destroyed by Manziel in the Cotton Bowl to close out 2012. Then lost 2 Conf games and were embarassed in Waco in 13â. The naysayers were muted with that Sugar Bowl W over Bama to end the season that was Foolâs Gold. 2014 was the low point. 8-5, that included a dismantling in Norman at the hands of the Bears to the tune of 48-14. That year ended in the same way with a loss to Clemson in which they were down 40-0 at one point. The postgame presser included Tramel and Bob Barry Jr questioning the staff and direction of the programâŚBob handled it a little differently than Mike, but we dont need to cross that bridge again. OU fired the OC (Heupel) and had no option at QB. In walked Baker MayfieldâŚGundy is in a similar spot. This is year 18 for Gundy. Bob had his issues in year 14/15/16.
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I wish I knew in advance that our Tech transfer was going to be as good as OUâs was back then. The fact that Bob was willing to fire Josh speaks volumes about the difference in how seriously the two programs take football. And they always will. Which makes me sad. Gundy would never fire Kasey for a consistently crappy offense. Think about this. Last year, OSU went 7-6. OU went 6-7. But which program feels like itâs in better shape right now? Which fan base is more confident in their direction of the program? OU. Right now, OSU is stagnant and threatening to go downhill. Pokes leadership seems determined to let Gundy slowly burn down what he built.
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I get it. But, obviously the OUâs of the world have issues too. Pulling the plug too early can be an issue. Thats why I think so highly of Joe C. But back on GundyâŚdont you OWE it to a guy like that to let him stay as long as he wants? To allow him to leave on his own? Now, I think a savvy leader can talk a guy like that into bowing out gracefully if the car gets too far into the ditch. But, at the end of the day, im in the camp of letting a guy like that have a lot longer leash because of what hes done for my university. Just a thought
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3-15 Bedlam record. 1 conference title. 2 NY6 bowl wins in 18 seasons. The leash has been plenty long. Car went into the ditch in Manhattan last year and blew the engine and transmission by the second half in Norman. Also, Holder is no longer Gundyâs boss, which is the closest comparison to Joe C and Bob that I can think of.
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Just having a discussion. Not saying I disagree with you. Do you fire a guy because he cant consistently beat OU? Over 18 years, no one in the Conf has had consistent success against em. I know it feels like KState gives OU as much trouble as anyone, but its really only been Chris Klieman. Hes 3-1 against OU. The 1 Conf title: Thats a tough one. I get it. But I think you can only expect OSU to be in contention more often than not, which is maybe where hes been disappointing. I cant fault a fanbase for wanting more out of the program though. Completely get it.
Bob was Joe Câs hire. Those two guys were extremely close, which you know was not the case with Holder/Gundy
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Oh I understand. Iâm not gonna say you have to agree or disagree. It has been good discussion. I know people will disagree with this: Auburn has had more success vs Bama in the past 18 years than OSU has vs OU. And aside from Georgia w/ Smart, Bama has the SEC and all of college football in a chokehold. Youâd think OSU could or should already have become comparable to AuburnâŚbut they arenât.
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Auburn is a very good comparison in really only one way, which is having an in-state blue blood to compete against. Auburn gets the benefit of more monetary resources, superior Conf (which is a major recruiting tool), facilities, and the biggest is proximity to fertile recruiting grounds. OSU has those things, but on a much smaller window than Auburn. I think Oregon/Clemson is obviously what OSU would like to be. But, Mich St is what it is. I cant disagree with much of anything youve said. I just think a program gets on very, very thin ice when you start entertaining canning a guy like Gundy at at place like OSU. OSU is a stepping-stone type job for most, which causes a whole lot of fluctuation within the program. Can catch lightning in a bottle and have a successful windowâŚthen the guy leaves and typically you fall off a cliff for cycle. Then youre searching again for the right guy. Its a stepping-stone gig for everyone except guys like Gundy. He stays. Gives your program stability. But the problem with a guy like that is you can lower your ceiling by keeping him too long. Tough spot to be in. Thats why this Gundy into the new look Big 12 is fascinating to me
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Allow me a moment to say that Iâm really appreciating the conversation that @KetchupSicle and @travis5266 are having in this thread. Itâs been a really good.
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How does K state and Baylor fit into your thoughts on hiring coaches?
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Thank you! Itâs been fun. Glad itâs been entertaining. @KetchupSicle is definitely a knowledgeable, classy guy who keeps it civil so I try to return the favor. Gotta rep OSU the right way. As much as I may despise their program, OUâs fan base does have some good people. Heâs definitely one of them.
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To add to this, TCU replaced Patterson and look what they got last year!
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KState: You gotta get a blue collar, extremely knowledgeable football guy, extremely hard working grinder. You arenât gonna get a big name guy there. You donât have deep pockets. The only recruiting advantage you have is the proximity to the JUCOâs up there. Your ceiling is contending to win the new look Big 12, which they have as hood a chance as anybody. I think you can win thereâŚ.but it takes a blue collar cat to stick & win.
Baylor is a little different. Easier place to recruit to. Theyâre gonna pay you well enough. Good facilities. Theyâre pumping money in there. Recruiting base. I personally think Baylor & TCU have the biggest advantage going fwd in the new look league. Baylor shown you can win there & get to the NFL as a HC.
You bring up an interesting point. Has Gundy done enough (I think he has, btw) and is OSUâs leadership and donor-base willing to do what it takes to make OSU more than just a stepping-stone job? That second part remains to be seen.
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How do you go about transforming your program from a stepping stone to a destination? I think that takes one of two things 1) A absolute HR hire. A guy that wants to stay because itâs his destination. Thatâs Gundy. A guy thatâs gonna stay for the duration. Thatâs Gundy. A guy that is a dogged recruiter who is as personable & energetic & committed to what heâs selling. Thatâs not Gundy. But it is Dabo Swinney. 2) $$$$. Have a bigtime donor or money man. That was Boone. You go all in from top to bottom. Thatâs Phil Knight.
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YeahâŚitâs nearly impossible to get all those factors combined into 1 program.
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So you donât think OSU could find a guy to sustain 7-8 win seasons? Iâll bet they could.